Long Time Lurker, First Time Poster

[JoeTheRef]

I must be missing something, or not reading everything. The majority of us would put the time back on the clock and the ball back in play at the endline. To put the ball in play where the ball was, in my opinion wouldn't work for me, simply because the throw-in never ended, so how can I change the location of the throw-in? But to try and justify by any rule to give the ball back to Team B in this situation is absurd.

In the caseplay 7.5.4 sit. D.. Official inadverntely blows the whistle while Team A's successful try is airborne.. Ruling. Even though by rule there is no team control during this dead ball period, the ball would be given to TEam B for a throw-in anywhere along the endline. Team B would have clearly received the ball had the official not acidentally sound his/her whistle.

Yes, I know that caseplay is talking about an IW, but the intent of the ruling by the FED in that situation could and should be applied in this situation. So in the OP, Team A would not or could not lose possession because of the idiot timekeeper starting the clock when it shouldn't have started, period.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

I keep seeing your reference to 4-3-3. Do you not know that this rule is to set the direction of the INITIAL ARROW...

Sorry, it's a typo. I meant 4-4-3, which deals with BALL LOCATION. I've gone back and edited my previous posts to the correct number.

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

The official blew the whistle before the throw-in ENDED, the ball is dead, whether the whistle was inadvertent or to correct the clock, the throw-in after a made basket did not end, nor was there a violation on the throw-in team, so you give the ball back to the Team A, back at the endline (and he can run the endline), and let's play.

Joe, what you are missing is that there is not a rule in the book which says to do what you seem to think is THE way to handle the situation.
Even though the stoppage occurred during a throw-in, the POI rule does not apply because the reason for the stoppage is NOT one of those listed in 4-36-1. We agree that this is not an accidental whistle, right?

It is unfortunate, but I believe that the rule which governs this play is 6-4-3e. That describes the conditions under which the ball became dead. That rule says to use the AP arrow at the location of the ball.

See the problem?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Yet another bullsh1t interpretation from the King of Bullsh1t Interpretations.

Assuming you blow the whistle before anyone touches the ball after it's rolled in why does the ball retain the location it last touched on the court instead of where it last touched a player?

Note they use the word *or*.

Geeze...time to visit the ignore feature.

Because which one happened last or most recently, Dan? The ball contacted the court, so that is it's location. It's not hard.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Because which one happened last or most recently, Dan? The ball contacted the court, so that is it's location. It's not hard.

So you're interpreting the word "or" as "the last or most recent thing that happened".

Nice.

I prefer to interpret it as "or".

It's not hard.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

So you're interpreting the word "or" as "the last or most recent thing that happened".

Where it last touched a player or the court, obviously means just that.

Sorry that you don't agree, but you are going to be in the minority on that one.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Where it last touched a player or the court, obviously means just that.

Sorry that you don't agree, but you are going to be in the minority on that one.

2 things:

1. Even though this is a debate between 2 people your interpretation is that one of us in in the minority. Is it possible to be promoted from King of Bullsh1t Interpretations to something higher? Emperor? Need to look into that.

2. If they meant it your way simply inserting the word "either" would have made it clear. Example: A1 is standing OOB when the ball bounces off his hands and lands OOB on the other sideline (let's assume A1 is Chuck). Where's the throw-in spot? Where it last touched the player or where it most recently touched either the player or the floor?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

2 things:

1. Even though this is a debate between 2 people your interpretation is that one of us in in the minority. Is it possible to be promoted from King of Bullsh1t Interpretations to something higher? Emperor? Need to look into that.

2. If they meant it your way simply inserting the word "either" would have made it clear. Example: A1 is standing OOB when the ball bounces off his hands and lands OOB on the other sideline (let's assume A1 is Chuck). Where's the throw-in spot? Where it last touched the player or where it most recently touched either the player or the floor?

1. Just because you can't handle being told that your interpretation is not correct is no reason to resort to name calling. I don't believe that I have ever attempted to degrade and name-call you. Be an adult, Dan.

2. I'm sorry that the diction of the NFHS rules committee isn't up to your standards. You'll have to take that up with them. I'm still convinced that my understanding of what their words mean is quite reasonable.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Therefore, by the current wording of the NFHS rules, this play results in an AP throw-in from the nearest OOB spot to where the ball last contacted the floor. I'll state now that I believe that this is an absolutely horrible outcome, but it is the current application of the rules. In my opinion, any official who did it that way would need a police escort out of the gym, if the arrow happened to favor the defense. So what else can we do?

YOW!!!

What else can we do? How about we take a look at the definition of when a throw-in ends???

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Mark, go back and read Nevada's post. He's saying that he'll go with the arrow if the whistle is blown BEFORE the ball is touched. Iow, without anyone touching the ball in-bounds on that throw-in, he's going to give the defense the ball if they've got the arrow.That's what you agreed with.

WRONG! As you usually are when you get into this crabby, "no-one-can-tell-me-anything" mood. Otherwise, you're normally quite good.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

(Note: Until the rules are changed, I'm ruling that the situation in the OP IS an "interrupted game" and applying the POI rule.)