Long Time Lurker, First Time Poster

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

This is an inadvertent whistle during a throw-in. The POI is a throw-in to the team who is making the throw-in.

I disagree. If it was an IW, then you would have to go with the AP as there is no team control. HOWEVER, he killed the play because the clock started improperly, so I don't consider that an IW.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by NewNCref

I disagree. If it was an IW, then you would have to go with the AP as there is no team control. HOWEVER, he killed the play because the clock started improperly, so I don't consider that an IW.

While I agree that it's not an IW, per se, Scrapper is correct as to what to do when an IW occurs.

Take a look at 4-36-2 (POI rule) and 4-42-5.

[Scrapper1]

Interesting point that it is not an official's "accidental whistle". It's definitely on purpose to correct the timing mistake. However, without any other rule to go by, I would continue using the POI rule and give the throw-in to the team that had just made the throw-in.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by NewNCref[B

]I disagree. If it was an IW, then you would have to go with the AP as there is no team control. [/B] HOWEVER, he killed the play because the clock started improperly, so I don't consider that an IW.

You are correct that there is no team control during the throw in, but would be incorrect in this situation of going to the AP should an IW happen in the OP's situation. Team-A coming out of a time-out after a made basket..... If the IW happens here, the ball goes back to to Team A. See Caseplay 7.5.4. See the ruling for play D.

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

You are correct that there is no team control during the throw in, but would be incorrect in this situation of going to the AP should an IW happen in the OP's situation. Team-A coming out of a time-out after a made basket..... If the IW happens here, the ball goes back to to Team A. See Caseplay 7.5.4. See the ruling for play D.

I stand corrected! Thanks Joe and Mark. Good thing I've never had to make this call before!

Here's another thought I'd like to see what you guys think about, if there's no press on, why not just wait until he touches the ball, blow it dead, and reset the clock to the correct time, and then there's no question about where to give him the ball. Then again, that could be risky if the defense is anywhere near the ball or if Jon Diebler is playing defense.

[SoInZebra]

NCRef-

I thought about doing that - in the locker room after the game. I went with the first instinct which was to kill the play and fix the clock.

[etruland]

That's not an IW. WE have a timing mistake. Since we must put time back on, put ball back to throw in spot.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by etruland

That's not an IW. WE have a timing mistake. Since we must put time back on, put ball back to throw in spot.

Hey Earl. Welcome to the forum!!

I agree that it's technically not an inadvertent whistle. But why does putting time back on the clock mean that we must go back to the original throw-in spot? I don't get the connection between those two things.

[socalreff]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Hey Earl. Welcome to the forum!!

I agree that it's technically not an inadvertent whistle. But why does putting time back on the clock mean that we must go back to the original throw-in spot? I don't get the connection between those two things.

Let me try to simplify this whole thing. This is an official's timeout. The official blew the whistle to make a correction. If a team calls a timeout before the throw-in is completed, where is the next throw-in? The ball has not yet achieved any status other than its original position.
On a throw-in, if the ball bounces in the frontcourt, has it attained front court status? No. A player in the backcourt may be the 1st to touch it after it touches the floor in the frontcourt.
The same applies to this situation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by NewNCref

Here's another thought I'd like to see what you guys think about, if there's no press on, why not just wait until he touches the ball, blow it dead, and reset the clock to the correct time, and then there's no question about where to give him the ball.

Oh? Do you a rules citation that will back up the statement that there's no question about where to give the replacement throw-in? And how much time are you going to accurately take off the clock to allow for the time that elapsed between the throw-in ending and your whistle? Or do you just ignore that time?

The play simply isn't covered.Personally, I'm taking it back to the original throw-in spot. Why? Because you're giving the throwing team an unfair advantage imo. You're letting them move the ball up the court without using any time at all to do so. That's completely unfair to the defense imo.

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Oh? Do you a rules citation that will back up the statement that there's no question about where to give the replacement throw-in? And how much time are you going to accurately take off the clock to allow for the time that elapsed between the throw-in ending and your whistle? Or do you just ignore that time?

The play simply isn't covered.Personally, I'm taking it back to the original throw-in spot. Why? Because you're giving the throwing team an unfair advantage imo. You're letting them move the ball up the court without using any time at all to do so. That's completely unfair to the defense imo.

If the guy is just letting it bounce in front of him, without touching it as to delay the start of the clock, and then grabs it with both hands, the clock would start at the same moment that player control was gained. I can then say that he gained possession of the ball at the time that should have been on the clock (though granted my knowledge of physics is lacking, I think I'm probably making some wrong assertion about simultaneous events).

I do agree with you, JR, that it does seem like an unfair advantage is being gained, but during every throw-in, the throwing team gets to move the ball up the court without using any time. It could be rolled to half court before it's touched, and you're already halfway to the basket without using any time. Considering it was an timer's error, and not some play designed for them to move the ball up the court without using any time, I'm okay with it in this regard.

The reason I would not do it is that it's too risky, and wouldn't be proper in all situations. What if there was a defender on him who then stole the ball, or if he doesn't immediately grab the ball, but tips it. It's all too risky, so I wouldn't try it. Just thinking out loud to get other's opinions.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by NewNCref

If the guy is just letting it bounce in front of him, without touching it as to delay the start of the clock, and then grabs it with both hands, the clock would start at the same moment that player control was gained. I can then say that he gained possession of the ball at the time that should have been on the clock (though granted my knowledge of physics is lacking, I think I'm probably making some wrong assertion about simultaneous events).

Yeah. Technically, in this case, there would be time between when the ball was touched and when the whistle was blown. FWIW, the NBA rules/clock guidelines state that AT LEAST 0.3 must come off the clock when the ball is inbounded and followed by a quick whistle.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The play simply isn't covered.Personally, I'm taking it back to the original throw-in spot. Why? Because you're giving the throwing team an unfair advantage imo. You're letting them move the ball up the court without using any time at all to do so. That's completely unfair to the defense imo.

I agree 137%

[socalreff]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Oh? Do you a rules citation that will back up the statement that there's no question about where to give the replacement throw-in? And how much time are you going to accurately take off the clock to allow for the time that elapsed between the throw-in ending and your whistle? Or do you just ignore that time?

The play simply isn't covered.Personally, I'm taking it back to the original throw-in spot. Why? Because you're giving the throwing team an unfair advantage imo. You're letting them move the ball up the court without using any time at all to do so. That's completely unfair to the defense imo.

This play was covered during this season by the NCAA in a bulletin sent out to officials via the website. If there is no touch when you blow the whistle, you must return to the throw-in spot and put the correct time on the clock.
If you blow the whistle after the touch, you inbound closest to the touch and correct the clock to what you have knowledge (how much time elapsed between the touch and the whistle).

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by socalreff

This play was covered during this season by the NCAA in a bulletin sent out to officials via the website.

Would you mind posting the ruling? I don't remember seeing it in the bulletins, and I just now checked the E-officials site and I don't see it there.

Thanks.