"Over the back"

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That would be fine, Dan, if it were truly the kid's question, but you are well aware that it isn't. It's the coach's message for you in an attempt to get you to call something his way. The kid is just the middleman, and we both know that he could care less what answer you give him because he is only doing what his coach instructed him to do. Why not go directly answer the coach?

Why do I care?

I don't concern myself with every nit or every imagined power struggle as it seems you do. Player asks me to watch for over the back, I'm going to smile and mumble "OK". Coach asks me to watch for over the back I smile and mumble "OK". If either asks again later I tell him I heard him the first time and haven't seen it since. It aint changing the way I call the game. Apparently you need to confront the coach about this for some reason...maybe you watch too much Oprah?

There's enough to keep me busy working the game. I don't get wrapped in perceived psycho-dramas.

[BktBallRef]

The softer, gentler Dan.

[JRutledge]

I do not entertain things that are not rules with players and coaches. Because not only is there no such thing, they believe there is such a thing as "over the back, moving screen" or "reaching." If you say "OK" then the first time you do not call an "over the back" the then it turns into a "that was a foul" type of discussion. I guess if it works for you to placate them for a few minutes, but I am not going to do that. Actually it tells me how much I will not listen to a coach or player.

Peace

[jkjenning]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

So you think it's "pretty valid" for coaches to make statements to you in an attempt to influence your decisions.

Proper communication is "pretty valid" - what was described in the OP was proper communication to the officials.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jkjenning

Proper communication is "pretty valid" - what was described in the OP was proper communication to the officials.

Sooooooo.......by the same token, do you think it's OK for the official to go over and tell the coach what he should be doing? Maybe say "It's time to take the press off, coach"? Fairs fair when it comes to "proper communication".

That coach sent his player out for only one reason-- to try and get the official to make some rebounding calls in favor of his team? Or do you really think that the coach wanted you to call some "over the back" fouls against his team?

Proper response to that proper communication is to say "Yeah, right" and promptly fuggedaboutit. All the coach is trying to do is influence your calls. It's the oldest coaching ploy in the world, and obviously some rookies are still falling for it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by jkjenning

Proper communication is "pretty valid" - what was described in the OP was proper communication to the officials.

[bellnier]

Would it be so hard to just say "Tell coach I'll call a foul when I see contact" and leave it at that?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bellnier

Would it be so hard to just say "Tell coach I'll call a foul when I see contact" and leave it at that?

You should say whatever you feel it necessarily to get your point across. If "OK" works for you I have no problem with this. If you need to say more, then say more. I know I am simply just not going to debate what an "over the back" foul is. Whatever works for you, works for me.

Peace

[jkjenning]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Just be sure to pull your pants up when you're done.

[ChrisSportsFan]

I hear alot of guys say something like "if you have something come to us and if we have something, we'll come to you" in the captains meeting. Then when a kid comes to them during the game, they ignore the captain or give a sarcastic comment. This does not build confidence in the ref/player relationship.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ChrisSportsFan

I hear alot of guys say something like "if you have something come to us and if we have something, we'll come to you" in the captains meeting. Then when a kid comes to them during the game, they ignore the captain or give a sarcastic comment. This does not build confidence in the ref/player relationship.

In my experience, the response given by an official usually depends on what the player came to the official with. If they just want to b!tch, then they can consider themselves lucky if they're only ignored. If it's something legitimate, I think that most officials will give a legitimate response.

[KCRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not entertain things that are not rules with players and coaches. Because not only is there no such thing, they believe there is such a thing as "over the back, moving screen" or "reaching." If you say "OK" then the first time you do not call an "over the back" the then it turns into a "that was a foul" type of discussion. I guess if it works for you to placate them for a few minutes, but I am not going to do that. Actually it tells me how much I will not listen to a coach or player.

Peace

I may be wrong here, as I only just completed my first year of officiating, but could the coaches, players, and fans actually understand that contact is required in order to get the foul called when a player rebounds a ball from behind another player. Maybe the coach thought there was contact, and instead of telling his captain to tell the referee, "Please watch for the push from behind on the rebound," it is just easier to say, "Please watch the over-the back," and realize that the referee will know what they are talking about. Same thing goes for, "Please watch the fouling while reaching in," or "Please watch for the contact during that moving screen." Again, I could be wrong, but maybe the coach does understand that there has to be contact to get the foul, and maybe he saw it that way.

[stmaryrams]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

For me, I don't need a coach/captain to ask me to watch anything.

Asking me to "watch for..." implies that it's happening and I'm not calling it.

No thanks.

9 times out of 10 their team is doing the same thing. I can think of a few times when a coach said something like this and moments later his team was called for it.

Hey you said to watch for it!

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by KCRef

I may be wrong here, as I only just completed my first year of officiating, but could the coaches, players, and fans actually understand that contact is required in order to get the foul called when a player rebounds a ball from behind another player. Maybe the coach thought there was contact, and instead of telling his captain to tell the referee, "Please watch for the push from behind on the rebound," it is just easier to say, "Please watch the over-the back," and realize that the referee will know what they are talking about. Same thing goes for, "Please watch the fouling while reaching in," or "Please watch for the contact during that moving screen." Again, I could be wrong, but maybe the coach does understand that there has to be contact to get the foul, and maybe he saw it that way.

Usually, there is not a messenger boy on this pleading for us to pay attention...coaches prefer to yell out "Over the back! And 1! He's reaching!" for the most part. The over the back whine typically happens when a bigger opponent cherry picks a rebound over the outstretched arms of his player and gets a putback bucket.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by KCRef

I may be wrong here, as I only just completed my first year of officiating, but could the coaches, players, and fans actually understand that contact is required in order to get the foul called when a player rebounds a ball from behind another player. Maybe the coach thought there was contact, and instead of telling his captain to tell the referee, "Please watch for the push from behind on the rebound," it is just easier to say, "Please watch the over-the back," and realize that the referee will know what they are talking about. Same thing goes for, "Please watch the fouling while reaching in," or "Please watch for the contact during that moving screen." Again, I could be wrong, but maybe the coach does understand that there has to be contact to get the foul, and maybe he saw it that way.

Coaches or players understand that contact is required or not is not the issue that I am talking about. There is nothing inherently illegal to make contact with a player's back. There is nothing illegal to reach in for the ball. Even if there is contact that does not mean you have a foul. You have to have displaced a player or cause some kind of advantage to have a foul. So that means the bigger kid that out jumps the smaller kid should not be called for a foul just because there is a little contact. You will find that they call for a foul when nothing illegal took place. But when you say "over the back" and they are not calling for any other kind of rebounding foul, you lose credibility with me at least. When they lose credibility, I stop talking to them soon after.

Peace