Correct call ?

[RefTip]

While watching our JV boys play the other day had this situation come up . Team A has the ball in their backcourt , Team B fouls Team A . While the official is reporting the foul he realizes ( table informs him ) that Team B has 6 players on the court. The official gives a Technical foul to team B and administers the technical foul first, then the FT's for the personal foul & then gives Team A the ball at half court .
I think the officials got confused on the sequence of administration but were they correct in giving the T because of 6 players ? ( The ball was already dead b/c of the personal foul on Team B ) .

Thanks for your input

Tip

[Nevadaref]

10-1-6 . . . Have more than five team members participating simultaneously.
PENALTY: (Art. 6) Penalized if discovered while being violated.

That means while the ball is live. If the officials didn't notice that the team had six out there until the ball became dead, then issuing a technical foul was incorrect.

As for the FTs being shot in the wrong order:

MISTAKE IN ADMINISTRATION SEQUENCE
8.7 SITUATION B: B1 fouls A1 just as the first quarter ends and then A1 retaliates and intentionally contacts B1. A1's foul is a technical foul as it occurred during a dead ball. Team A is in the bonus. The officials by mistake administer the penalty for the technical foul before the free throw(s) by A1. RULING: The penalties should have been administered in the order in which the fouls occurred. However, since all merited free throws were attempted it does not constitute a correctable error situation. The second quarter will begin with an alternating-possession throw-in. (4-19-5c)

[RefTip]

Thanks for the clarification........................



Tip

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

10-1-6 . . . Have more than five team members participating simultaneously.
PENALTY: (Art. 6) Penalized if discovered while being violated.

That means while the ball is live. If the officials didn't notice that the team had six out there until the ball became dead, then issuing a technical foul was incorrect.

Based on what?

If there's a dead ball and there's 6 still on the floor, then it's discovered while being violated. The rule doesn't say, "That means while the ball is live."

I'm open for discussion but you've gotta come up with more than that.

[Nevadaref]

My opinion comes from how one must define "participating."

Can team members be participating during a dead ball?

Perhaps in the case of the dead ball following a goal while the clock is running, but otherwise I don't see how.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by RefTip

While the official is reporting the foul he realizes ( table informs him ) that Team B has 6 players on the court.

What is in bold below seems very similar to the comment above from the original post. In the situation inquired about, it seems that it was too late to penalize the infraction.


SIX IN GAME
10.1.6 SITUATION: With Team A leading 51 to 50, a held ball is called. A6 properly reports and enters the game. Time is then called by Team A. The clock shows two seconds remaining in the game. After play is resumed by a throw-in, the officials: (a) recognize that A has six players competing, but cannot get the clock stopped; or (b) do not notice Team A has six players on the court. Following the throw-in, time expires. Team B now reports to the officials that Team A had six players on the court. RULING: In (a), since one of the officials had knowledge that Team A had six players participating simultaneously and this was detected prior to time expiring, a technical foul is assessed against Team A. In (b), since it was not recognized by either official, but was called to their attention after time had expired, it is too late to assess any penalty.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What is in bold below seems very similar to the comment above from the original post. In the situation inquired about, it seems that it was too late to penalize the infraction.


SIX IN GAME
10.1.6 SITUATION: With Team A leading 51 to 50, a held ball is called. A6 properly reports and enters the game. Time is then called by Team A. The clock shows two seconds remaining in the game. After play is resumed by a throw-in, the officials: (a) recognize that A has six players competing, but cannot get the clock stopped; or (b) do not notice Team A has six players on the court. Following the throw-in, time expires. Team B now reports to the officials that Team A had six players on the court. RULING: In (a), since one of the officials had knowledge that Team A had six players participating simultaneously and this was detected prior to time expiring, a technical foul is assessed against Team A. In (b), since it was not recognized by either official, but was called to their attention after time had expired, it is too late to assess any penalty.

Completely irrelevant. This case play is talking about the end of the game.

[Nevadaref]

Which is not the same as the end of the jurisdiction of the officials. So how is this dead ball any different?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Which is not the same as the end of the jurisdiction of the officials. So how is this dead ball any different?

The period is over. That's how it's different.

I agree with Tony.

[AFHusker]

Maybe a bailout, but the tech could be for a substitute not reporting to the scorer or being beckoned by an official. I'm sure both officials counted 5 players on each team before the foul so the 6th player must have been a sub.

[deecee]

nevada i think you read into the rules with x-ray vision. even this is a bit of a stretch. but i do admire your zeal in going after these 3rd world interpretations.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by deecee

i do admire your zeal in going after these 3rd world interpretations.

"I wish I had your passion, Ray. Misdirected though it might be,
it is still a passion."

[RefTip]

Clarification : The technical was for 6 men on the court ,,, not for illegal entry ( not being beckoned or reporting ) . Our coach asked the official the reason for the T and the official responded that it was b/c of 6 players on the floor.

Thanks for the input

Tip

[deecee]

6 players is not a T its a rare inverted violation as per 3.4 sitA.

the penalty is the offending coach gets tickled by the hamburglar while ronald mcdonald watches.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The period is over. That's how it's different.

I agree with Tony.

So let's move this to the end of the third quarter. The officials only notice that there were six team members out there after the horn has sounded and the teams are on their way to their benches for the one-minute intermission. What have you got?

Or how about if the stoppage is for a full time-out in the middle of the second quarter, and then rest happens the same as above?