Fastest T in The West

[Old School]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You really have no clue.

They're allowed to stand for an exciting play.

They aren't allowed to stand and yell at the official about a call they don't like.

Yea, but how do you know that? Snaqs said it was a decent move, which that in itself could have got the coaches up. Then he calls a traveling, and the coaches are already standing. They say "What!" " That's not a travel!" while standing. That's emotion. That's 1 + 1 = 2. That's elementary Holmes, in officiating terms. You should be able to anticipate that and if you don't, I question your ability in this area (conduct T's) as an official. And it's not that as much as your reaction to their reaction. We got the coaches being emotional, now with the quick T, we got the official being emotional. Not a lot of clear thought is being used here by either parties.

It's not good for the official to get emotional. Now repeat after me. It ain't all about me! It ain't all about me!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

Nice try Snags with a "G",

This was an opportunity for you to be cordial. No more, no less. Your call.

Originally Posted by Old School

if he didn't get under your skin, why didn't you give him a warning?

Perhaps that is the difference in our thinking. I'm giving the T when the behavior is over the line of unsporting; before they get under my skin. You wait until they're under your skin before giving the T. Which do you think the assigners prefer, someone who lets them get under his skin, or someone who nips the problem and never allows it to escalate?

Originally Posted by Old School

That's enough coach! Probably would have accomplished the same thing and got you even more respect without having to issue a technical. Since you want to talk about lessons learned. For the listening audience, is it better in your opinion, to address a potential problem situation using game management or just issuing a T?

You assume the two are mutually exclusive. In my opinion, in this situation, game management called for a T. Had the assistant coach merely stood and made a quiet compaint, or had he been consistently standing to coach, I'd have reminded the head coach of the rule and we would have moved on. However, by standing up and yelling at me, he moved to the point where the T became the proper and most effective call.

Originally Posted by Old School

Better yet, if you're the assigner or coach, because let's face it, coaches have a voice too, who do you think will get the nod to move further, the quick draw T calling official or the official who applies good game management skills and doesn't have to issue a T to get his point across?

Here's some advice. Go to wikipedia.org and and look up "False Dichotomy" and "Strawman." The two of them pretty much define how your debate style. Now, to "answer" your question, how about the official who knows and applies and enforces the rules. Coaches don't have any say around here, especially in AAU. Regardless, I'd rather have a reputation for fair rule enforcement than a reputation for being willing to take all kinds of sh!t from coaches.

Originally Posted by Old School

Just thought I throw that in for food for thought. Not bad for a classic troll, uh!

I'm sure you can do better.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

Yea, but how do you know that? Snaqs said it was a decent move, which that in itself could have got the coaches up. Then he calls a traveling, and the coaches are already standing. They say "What!" " That's not a travel!" while standing. That's emotion. That's 1 + 1 = 2. That's elementary Holmes, in officiating terms. You should be able to anticipate that and if you don't, I question your ability in this area (conduct T's) as an official. And it's not that as much as your reaction to their reaction. We got the coaches being emotional, now with the quick T, we got the official being emotional. Not a lot of clear thought is being used here by either parties.

It's not good for the official to get emotional. Now repeat after me. It ain't all about me! It ain't all about me!

Yup, it was a decent move, all except for that traveling part. No, it wasn't such an oustanding move it had the two coaches up. It was "decent." No more. They didn't get up until I called the travel; at which point they're both screaming at me.

Again, I didn't get all emotional by calling the T. It was calm, the head coach compained briefly and asked what the T was for. I explained it and proceeded to administer the free throws while my partner explained to him the benefits of coaching from his chair.

I'm not sure why you are so hung up on thinking I was emotional just because I called a conduct T.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm not sure why you are so hung up on thinking I was emotional just because I called a conduct T.

He's hung up on it because he's a chicken-sh!t who won't call a T on a coach even if the coach is dropping f-bombs on him...he'll use his superior Jedi-like game management skills to get that coach clamed right down...and if that doesn't work THEN he will call the big dramatic T and yell "THAT'S ON YOU, COACH!!"...unlike the rest of us who just deal with things as they come up and move on - just like you did Snaq...

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

This was an opportunity for you to be cordial. No more, no less. Your call.

Oh really, after you made this statement.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Oh, and one more small point to help you look less ignorant. If your'e going to shorten my screen name and talk to me like a friend, use a Q instead of a G. It's more accurate.

So, you're one of those guys that think his sh!t don't stink!

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Perhaps that is the difference in our thinking. I'm giving the T when the behavior is over the line of unsporting; before they get under my skin. You wait until they're under your skin before giving the T. Which do you think the assigners prefer, someone who lets them get under his skin, or someone who nips the problem and never allows it to escalate?

It's called having thick skin you moron. If you're going to be a good official, you're going to have to toughen up a little bit here. Just as clear as the words I'm writing. If you pull that on Bobby Knight and his crew or some other DI coaches. You won't be working no more of their games because the cocah is going to call your assigner and tell him, anybody but you, and here's the other true part. You will never know this conversation took place but you will notice the next year, you didn't get as many assignments. I'm just being real.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Now, to "answer" your question, how about the official who knows and applies and enforces the rules. Coaches don't have any say around here, especially in AAU. Regardless, I'd rather have a reputation for fair rule enforcement than a reputation for being willing to take all kinds of sh!t from coaches.I'm sure you can do better.

Oh, you will have a reputation alright. That reputation is you are a thin-skin official who you better not say to much too or he'll T you up. Then they will say, is OS available? I'd rather have OS because he's more into officiating the game then asserting his authority, plus, he understands the difference between emotional outbursts on a play and personal attacks on his officiating. If you think coaches don't have any say, just think about this. Who approves the rules that we are govern by? And yes, even in the AAU.

Have a nice day...and remember, don't shoot the messenger.

[howie719]

My fastest T this year was last night. Less than a minute in the game A1 knocks ball out of bounds off of B1 opposite table. Ball goes to A1, coach B freaks out. 7/8th championship game. I'm standing by B's bench next trip and he's in my ear and says "This is the championship game don't cheat the kids". Whack! I told him if he had a question I would be happy to address it at the appropiate time (i.e. why did A get the ball on that inbounds play). I would have told you it clearly went off your player but your angle at some 60ft away wasn't good. However, suggesting we might cheat you in some manner is unexceptable, and my partner and I won't listen to that.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Old School

You won't be working no more of their games because the cocah is going to call your assigner

If you "won't be working no more of their games" then you will be working more of their games so that's a good thing.

BTW - can a "cocah" really use a phone?

I think Old School needs to go back to school.

[M&M Guy]

Old School - I have asked you some direct questions several times before, and you have apparently chosen to ignore these questions. I think it's fair to everyone involved for you to either answer these questions truthfully, or stop posting your opinions.

1. Do you officiate basketball?
2. What level(s) do you currently work? YMCA, grade school, high school, D-3, D-2, D-1 college, NBA?
4. How long have you worked at these levels?
5. Do you have a current copy of the NFHS rule book?

If I am going to have my house re-wired, or if I'm going in to have knee surgery, I'm checking on the credentials of the person on whose opinions I am relying upon. In your case, you have posted many opinions that are well outside the norm in officiating circles, as well as many incorrect rule references and interpretations. If we knew of your actual credentials, it might lend some credence to your opinions. If you refuse to give us that information, you will continue to be looked upon as someone who knows very little about basketball officiating, and you will continue to get many negative responses on this forum, as you should.

Have a nice day.

[Texas Aggie]

First one of the season you're done for the rest of the game. Second one, you're done for that one and the next. Third, you're done for the year.

I was asked to coordinate (and work) one year for a church league. I said I would do it provided there were rules such as this for the league. They balked. The next year, they came begging me to do it and said I could write any sportsmanship rule I wanted. So, what we did was this: first T: out a FULL half (i.e. rest of that game if first half; rest of game and first half of next if second); second T: out a FULL game plus rest of that one; third, done for year.

I never had any T's in my games and don't think we had any all year long.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

Oh really, after you made this statement.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

blah blah blah

Originally Posted by Old School

So, you're one of those guys that think his sh!t don't stink!

No, I was referring to the way you were coming across.

Originally Posted by Old School

It's called having thick skin you moron. If you're going to be a good official, you're going to have to toughen up a little bit here.

Awe, now you're just projecting.

Originally Posted by Old School

Just as clear as the words I'm writing. If you pull that on Bobby Knight and his crew or some other DI coaches.

If you honestly think Knight's assistant coaches are going to pull anything like what this assistant did, you're not really paying attention. And Knight's had his share of Ts, but I'm guessing the refs that called them didn't feel any repercussions from them. But, it's a guess, so if you have concrete evidence to the contrary you're welcome to impart that knowledge.

Originally Posted by Old School

You won't be working no more of their games because the cocah is going to call your assigner and tell him, anybody but you, and here's the other true part. You will never know this conversation took place but you will notice the next year, you didn't get as many assignments. I'm just being real.

First off, you can't possibly think I'd officiate a major conference D-1 game the same way I officiate a 14u AAU game. No one is that obtuse. Secondly, I'll bet if you calm down, keep your emotions in check, and type more slowly, you could avoid these silly spelling errors.

Originally Posted by Old School

Oh, you will have a reputation alright. That reputation is you are a thin-skin official who you better not say to much too or he'll T you up. Then they will say, is OS available? I'd rather have OS because he's more into officiating the game then asserting his authority, plus, he understands the difference between emotional outbursts on a play and personal attacks on his officiating. If you think coaches don't have any say, just think about this. Who approves the rules that we are govern by? And yes, even in the AAU.

I honestly think you're smarter than this, but I can only hold out for so long.

[SmokeEater]

Every time I read one of OS posts and the replies it generates, it makes me wonder if I should go see a Doctor. because I start laughing so much I think I have weakened my bladder and I pee a bit each time....

[M&M Guy]

Here, let me help:

[Adam]

Thanks, you're a pal.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Thanks, you're a pal.

No problem. I'm here to help.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by howie719

My fastest T this year was last night. Less than a minute in the game A1 knocks ball out of bounds off of B1 opposite table. Ball goes to A1, coach B freaks out. 7/8th championship game. I'm standing by B's bench next trip and he's in my ear and says "This is the championship game don't cheat the kids". Whack!

This is a good technical, no question asked, and "you can remain seated the rest of the game!" Notice the attack on your character, integrity and also the fact that he went down the court and back. Big difference. This is the ones you want to get Snaqs, this is like hitting a home run. What a setup! Perfect pitch, perfect swing, WHACK!!!!