The crew did nothing...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

In my opinion, I would have not given flagrant, just an unsportsmanlike T.

Then you're f---ing horrible too.

JMO.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Then you're f---ing horrible too.

JMO.

Too bad that just your opinion. I am sure you are a perfect official in your own eyes......JMO.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

Too bad that just your opinion. I am sure you are a perfect official in your own eyes......JMO.

If it doesn't bother you if a high school player says that to you, why would it bother you if another official said that to you also?

Think about it. Or not.

[PIAA REF]

Maybe I am just tired and not thinking right but I don't see why you have a flagrant T in this case. A T for unsportmanlike behavior yes but to toss a kid for swearing I just don't think so. At least not in my district. I would def. give a T but I would not toss him. Can you guys give me a rule book reason for the toss.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

Maybe I am just tired and not thinking right but I don't see why you have a flagrant T in this case. A T for unsportmanlike behavior yes but to toss a kid for swearing I just don't think so. At least not in my district. I would def. give a T but I would not toss him. Can you guys give me a rule book reason for the toss.

Sigh. It's already been cited above by BktBallRef. Case book play 5.6.2SitF. You don't mind high school kids swearing at YOU either, I take it?

Hey, be my guest. Let 'em call you every name in the book, for all I care. Hell, they know that they're not gonna get thrown out anyway. Remember, though, to be fair you have to let every single player on both teams swear at YOU like that without fear of being tossed. Not to mention coaches, trainers, student managers, etc., etc., etc.

You reap what you sow, and officials that don't want to to take care of bidness deserve exactly what they get.

[PIAA REF]

I think you are using a case that doesn't fit the situation. This is my opinion I do not have my books with me at work, but I will leave you with this. If you did this im my area during the playoffs while being evaluated you would be told you were wrong. 100%, yes the T is legit but not the toss. The reason I said playoffs is that is where we are evaluated (sometimes)
I am not trying to get into a pissing match with you at all, I just do not agree with an ejection.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

I think you are using a case that doesn't fit the situation. This is my opinion I do not have my books with me at work, but I will leave you with this. If you did this im my area during the playoffs while being evaluated you would be told you were wrong. 100%, yes the T is legit but not the toss. The reason I said playoffs is that is where we are evaluated (sometimes)
I am not trying to get into a pissing match with you at all, I just do not agree with an ejection.

Sometimes evaluators are morons, too.

He was (1) personal and (2) profane.

It's funny, in baseball just saying "you're horrible" would be an near-automatic ejection. Toss in an f-bomb adjective and some wouldn't eject in a basketball game?

Wow. Just wow.

I don't need a rule book or case book to point towards the locker room and say, "Go there."

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

I think you are using a case that doesn't fit the situation. This is my opinion I do not have my books with me at work, but I will leave you with this. If you did this im my area during the playoffs while being evaluated you would be told you were wrong. 100%, yes the T is legit but not the toss. The reason I said playoffs is that is where we are evaluated (sometimes)

That's kinda sad I think.

IMO a HS player that screams "you are f'ing horrible!" at the officials opens himself up to immediate DQ. Why work for an assignor who doesn't agree?

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

I think you are using a case that doesn't fit the situation.

But if we're calling consistently throughout the game, then it really doesn't matter that it took place during the game as opposed to after the game. I agree, it is a little different, but I believe that one of the keys here is that profanity, directed specificly at an officials, is flagrant.

Here's why I thought this one should be flagrant.

1.) You're horrible- Criticizing you personally.
2.) Throw in the f-bomb- Now he's criticizing you personally, with profanity.
3.) The volume- This was loud, loud enough that I could clearly hear it in the stands.

I always thought this was a no-brainer flagrant, but now I'm starting to rethink it a bit.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

I think you are using a case that doesn't fit the situation.

How does it not fit? Is it okay for a player to do it but not a coach? Is it okay during the game but not after? Seriously, how is this different?

[RushmoreRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Sigh. It's already been cited above by BktBallRef. Case book play 5.6.2SitF. You don't mind high school kids swearing at YOU either, I take it?

Hey, be my guest. Let 'em call you every name in the book, for all I care. Hell, they know that they're not gonna get thrown out anyway. Remember, though, to be fair you have to let every single player on both teams swear at YOU like that without fear of being tossed. Not to mention coaches, trainers, student managers, etc., etc., etc.

You reap what you sow, and officials that don't want to to take care of bidness deserve exactly what they get.

I'm not going flagrant with this either, at least as far as the example. I think it would be flagrant if the player did so in a confrontational manner, but taking the "easy approach" and just yelling while his back is turned or walking away just gets him a regular old, two-pinky T. JMO

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RushmoreRef

I think it would be flagrant if the player did so in a confrontational manner, but taking the "easy approach" and just yelling while his back is turned or walking away just gets him a regular old, two-pinky T. JMO

Cool. A high school player calling you a "f**king idiot" isn't confrontational. Good to know that. And how someone tells you that you're a "f**king idiot" should be taken into account also. If they say it nicely or quietly, then the penalty should be different also.

All I'm gonna say is......disagree.

[JRutledge]

This is totally a judgment call. I would not toss a player either just based on what I read. I was also not there either. He would get a T if I heard him clearly, but not ejected. All a judgment call.

Peace

[Old School]

When I read the OP, it states the official just chuckled about it. He did not think it was that bad, so I don't understand why you are debating it. Whether is was a flagrant T or not is irrelevant b/c both officials passed on the call. If you want to debate flagrant or not. That is a judgment call, not an absolute like JR says. I can toss a coach or player for saying far less than that so whether a flagrant is called or not is judgment.

You and JR need to learn to trust your partners and fellow comrades. What I mean is they are possibly at the end of there night and thinking about the good time they are going to have afterwards. Some player says something completely dumb, and I'm like, if I call this technical, that's going to delay the game that much more, and it's not going to change the outcome. This game is over and I'm not slowing it down to shoot no technicals, got to explain to the coach why, etc., etc. Even though it was well deserved, ain't got time tonight. Got a beautiful honey waiting on me afterwards. I'm going home.

I can't tell you how many times a player or coach has spouted off to me at or near the end of the game, and I just ignored it because it's not going to change the outcome. The only thing it's going to do is delay my leaving that much more. Cause some other undue stuff that I now have to deal with. If my evaluator is there and says why I didn't call that technical. I would say what technical? Didn't you hear that kid on the bench? I'd be like, what kid? What did he say? Damn, if I would have heard that, I would have T him. Have a good night.....

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by Old School

When I read the OP, it states the official just chuckled about it. He did not think it was that bad, so I don't understand why you are debating it. Whether is was a flagrant T or not is irrelevant b/c both officials passed on the call. If you want to debate flagrant or not. That is a judgment call, not an absolute like JR says. I can toss a coach or player for saying far less than that so whether a flagrant is called or not is judgment.

You and JR need to learn to trust your partners and fellow comrades. What I mean is they are possibly at the end of there night and thinking about the good time they are going to have afterwards. Some player says something completely dumb, and I'm like, if I call this technical, that's going to delay the game that much more, and it's not going to change the outcome. This game is over and I'm not slowing it down to shoot no technicals, got to explain to the coach why, etc., etc. Even though it was well deserved, ain't got time tonight. Got a beautiful honey waiting on me afterwards. I'm going home.

I can't tell you how many times a player or coach has spouted off to me at or near the end of the game, and I just ignored it because it's not going to change the outcome. The only thing it's going to do is delay my leaving that much more. Cause some other undue stuff that I now have to deal with. If my evaluator is there and says why I didn't call that technical. I would say what technical? Didn't you hear that kid on the bench? I'd be like, what kid? What did he say? Damn, if I would have heard that, I would have T him. Have a good night.....

I'm speechless.