Stop Sign Not Considered Harmful

[GarthB]

My opinion only:

There is nothing a stop sign can do that a low volume word or two cannot do.

Whereas I have seen the very visible stop sign make a situation worse (the coach and crowd can easily interpret it as being "shown up") I have never had a properly chosen soft word turn a situation worse.

I will continue to employ less potentially volatile techniques.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by GarthB

My opinion only:

There is nothing a stop sign can do that a low volume word or two cannot do.

Whereas I have seen the very visible stop sign make a situation worse (the coach and crowd can easily interpret it as being "shown up") I have never had a properly chosen soft word turn a situation worse.

I will continue to employ less potentially volatile techniques.

I see what you're saying, but if you're about to administer a free throw and the coach is jawing, you've got no way to have a quick "low volume word." I'm not a big fan of the stop sign, but I've used it to good effect once or twice.

And just yesterday I had a coach run right through a "properly chosen soft word." It wasn't what he wanted to hear, and "that's enough, coach" (loud enough for him to hear) didn't work.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I see what you're saying, but if you're about to administer a free throw and the coach is jawing, you've got no way to have a quick "low volume word." I'm not a big fan of the stop sign, but I've used it to good effect once or twice.

No way? Are you sure about that? If you are working 3 man, you can go right to the coach and talk to them. If you are working 2 man, tell the coach, "I will be over there in a second, give me a chance" and they will have to hold their horses. If they do not, then you have options.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And just yesterday I had a coach run right through a "properly chosen soft word." It wasn't what he wanted to hear, and "that's enough, coach" (loud enough for him to hear) didn't work.

Maybe you could choose a better set of words than "That's enough coach." This also sounds confrontational as well in my opinion.

Peace

[Ignats75]

This whole stop sign controversy started with one of my postsand me describing when I used it (which did end up in a T). However, Friday night, I had a situation that I know some would've used the stop sign.

Home team (Falcons) were Hosting the Rangers. Boys JV. Falcons coach is usually very calm. Two pretty good teams. Falcons lead most of the game 6-10 points. With about 4:00 in the game Rangers put a little run together to close to 7. I am lead as Falcons have the ball. Rangers player tips away ball from behind as Falcons player drives the lane. Before the ball goes out of bounds, it hits off the chest of a Falcons player. I call blue and point the other way. In hind sight I realize that the Falcons player had his back to the bench and there is no way anyone byt me saw the play. As I get ready to administer the throw in the Falcons coach says out loud for the whole gym to hear, "Come on Ignats, don't start screwing me now."

I didn't give him the stop sign. I Whacked him. I'm sure in my first couple of years the stop sign is all I would've given him. But now I won't tolerate anyone questioning my integrity like that.

[JRutledge]

The usage or non-usage of the stop sign should not be a prerequisite of using good communication skills and good mechanics which will sell more of your calls a lot more than a single gesture ever will.

Peace

[Adam]

Agreed. Also, the one time I used it this season, I felt weird. It felt more like a "talk to the hand" than anything else. I think the reason it "worked" had more to do with the fact that the coach had gotten the call he wanted, he just thought it should have come from me.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No way? Are you sure about that? If you are working 3 man, you can go right to the coach and talk to them. If you are working 2 man, tell the coach, "I will be over there in a second, give me a chance" and they will have to hold their horses. If they do not, then you have options.

I'm talking about lead on a free throw. 2 man or 3 man, it isn't going to make a difference. I suppose I could have held off on the free throw and walked over for a discussion.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Maybe you could choose a better set of words than "That's enough coach." This also sounds confrontational as well in my opinion.

You're right. I'm not happy with the way that went down, and that's the part I've been rethinking since then. Problem is, the ball was live and inbounds when he responded to my answer with, "That's terrible." I was right in front of him, but didn't find it appropriate to turn my back. A longer answer may have been appropriate, something more direct and detailed addressing his behavior.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm talking about lead on a free throw. 2 man or 3 man, it isn't going to make a difference. I suppose I could have held off on the free throw and walked over for a discussion.

Why are you talking to a coach from the lead position at all in a 3 person game? There is an official standing closer to a coach than you will ever be at the lead. If you do it right, the calling officials is the officials closest to the coach anyway. Now in 2 man, I am not talking a lot to a coach ever during that sequence. But I will establish this pretty early in my games.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You're right. I'm not happy with the way that went down, and that's the part I've been rethinking since then. Problem is, the ball was live and inbounds when he responded to my answer with, "That's terrible." I was right in front of him, but didn't find it appropriate to turn my back. A longer answer may have been appropriate, something more direct and detailed addressing his behavior.

This is why you should mostly be talking to coaches during dead ball. I do not talk to coaches a lot during live ball as a regular practice. I tend to ignore them during those times. When there is a dead ball or there is after a timeout, I will make myself available if a coach has a legitimate question. I used to try to talk to coaches during live ball and the message hardly ever gets across when I am running by. Usually I will just tell the coach, "Wait until a dead ball and I will talk to you when I get a chance."

Peace

[jkjenning]

Originally Posted by GarthB

There is nothing a stop sign can do that a low volume word or two cannot do.

Is there an argument for using the stop sign because that will show up on game tape? Since we are constantly on video, using visible means of commication can be useful - especially if the coach ends up being ejected and there is some reason to revisit the chain of events.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jkjenning

Is there an argument for using the stop sign because that will show up on game tape? Since we are constantly on video, using visible means of commication can be useful - especially if the coach ends up being ejected and there is some reason to revisit the chain of events.

I have heard that issue discussed before. I do not necessarily agree that this solves all issues. You still will have to explain why you called a T. And unless you are in the picture on video, it might not be clear if you used the stop sign. I am not sure I would rely on the video tape to save my behind.

Peace

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have heard that issue discussed before. I do not necessarily agree that this solves all issues. You still will have to explain why you called a T. And unless you are in the picture on video, it might not be clear if you used the stop sign. I am not sure I would rely on the video tape to save my behind.

Peace

GREAT point that I hope will not get overlooked by those viewing this thread!

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by GarthB

There is nothing a stop sign can do that a low volume word or two cannot do.

I respectfully disagree...I am not a fan of the stop sign. I have used it only one time that I can remember this season, but at the time I used it, I wanted everyone in the gym - including the evaluator/observer sitting up in the top row - to know that the coach had gone too far and needed to cease and desist. Did he end up getting T'd - yes...but not by me. There are times when the stop sign sends the message to everyone in the gym that the coach needs to stop whatever it is he/she is doing...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I respectfully disagree...I am not a fan of the stop sign. I have used it only one time that I can remember this season, but at the time I used it, I wanted everyone in the gym - including the evaluator/observer sitting up in the top row - to know that the coach had gone too far and needed to cease and desist. Did he end up getting T'd - yes...but not by me. There are times when the stop sign sends the message to everyone in the gym that the coach needs to stop whatever it is he/she is doing...

Yup, it's just another tool that works in certain situations if it's used correctly. Experience and officiating acumen lets you know how and when to use it.

It can be used appropriately on players, assistant coaches, etc. too.

Never say never.

[bradfordwilkins]

Originally Posted by GarthB

My opinion only:

There is nothing a stop sign can do that a low volume word or two cannot do.

Garth, I'd say you have to consider college ball when games are video taped (or even hs games w/ video taping) that don't have the audio capabilities to pick up your soft word to the coach. However, lets say a coach doesn't heed a warning and you have to give a tech a few plays later -- then at least on tape they have a visable sign that the coach was WARNED.

Of course, you don't always need to give a stop sign... some coaches just need a pleasant reminder to stay under control. But to say that there is nothing it can do is an overstatement.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bradfordwilkins

Garth, I'd say you have to consider college ball when games are video taped (or even hs games w/ video taping) that don't have the audio capabilities to pick up your soft word to the coach. However, lets say a coach doesn't heed a warning and you have to give a tech a few plays later -- then at least on tape they have a visable sign that the coach was WARNED.

Since you did not read my other post about this, then let me say this about your assumption. You are assuming that every aspect of a game is video taped. It clearly is not. I have multiple video taped games just from this year and there many times you cannot see the officials in during the game. You also cannot see many dead ball situations. So now you are relying on the tape to show something it might not display at all. So when there is a FT, you might not see where the Trail official is located and who they are talking to.

Originally Posted by bradfordwilkins

Of course, you don't always need to give a stop sign... some coaches just need a pleasant reminder to stay under control. But to say that there is nothing it can do is an overstatement.

It is just as overstated to say it should be used or that it is not harmful (like the title of this thread). As I have said many times before, you cannot use what works for someone else and automatically translate that into your game. It also takes experience to know when to use something effectively. I just choose not to use a tool that can go one way or the other that is also very public.

Peace