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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 12:09pm
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I won't forget this...

HS game last night, visitors behind most of the way. They make a strong run in the 4th qtr and cut it to like 7 points but couldn't sustain. Little over a minute left in the game and he's down by 20 so he surrenders and puts his subs in. They promply lose the ball OOB. I'm T, start the throw-in and the home coach calls a time out. I figure he's gonna put in his bench and start the game up again but no. He takes the entire timeout. Sooo....and here'e the point of the post...I'm standing near the visiting coach and he turns to me and says "I've been doing this for 17 years and I can remember every coach who's done this to me and I'll remember this too".

All I could say was "ya got a good point coach".
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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 12:11pm
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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 12:12pm
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Just to clarify, he takes the entire timeout and does what? Tries to get his starters to score more points? Or just takes up time that you and the coach felt should be running off the clock?

If the latter, he may have seen something that he felt had to be corrected right then and there.
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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 12:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie
Just to clarify, he takes the entire timeout and does what? Tries to get his starters to score more points? Or just takes up time that you and the coach felt should be running off the clock?

If the latter, he may have seen something that he felt had to be corrected right then and there.
2 questions, 2 answers

1. I have no idea what he was talking about, I was 50 feet away from him.

2. I was not concerned with the clock not running, in fact I called 2 fouls in the last minute after the TO.

I bet the visiting coach wasn't concerned with getting home 30 seconds sooner either.
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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 01:00pm
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Had a similiar situation earlier this year...very strong local program playing a very new program from Canada...local school up by 32 points with a little over 6 min. to go. Local coach calls time-out - I'm thinking he's bringing in those last two or three who haven't played yet. Nope - sends all 5 starters to the table to check-in and then slaps the press back on. Visiting coach looks at me and asks "What's his problem?" All I could do was shrug...
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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 01:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
What goes 'round, comes 'round.
I hope so, as some coaches can be such a$$es.

I had a coach who's worst player was taller and better than the other team's best. Yet, up 40, he insisted on playing a tight man to man and picking up the press at mid-court.

Had another coach who's team was up 50 and was not allowing his boys any fast breaks, used a soft zone, used his subs, ran his offense methodically and really tried NOT to run it up (he could have won by 100). Now he was teaching his players a better life lesson.

Any thoughts on this scenario if one of the team is locally/nationally ranked and obviously looking to impress? Difference?
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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 01:18pm
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same lesson as the kids that score 100 points in a game where their team wins 160-4 and they want to hear praise and congratulations. well to me 32 minutes of practice layups wont get you praise from me all it will get you is you could only score 100 points in that much time -- you need to hustle more.
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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 01:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar
I hope so, as some coaches can be such a$$es.

I had a coach who's worst player was taller and better than the other team's best. Yet, up 40, he insisted on playing a tight man to man and picking up the press at mid-court.

Had another coach who's team was up 50 and was not allowing his boys any fast breaks, used a soft zone, used his subs, ran his offense methodically and really tried NOT to run it up (he could have won by 100). Now he was teaching his players a better life lesson.

Any thoughts on this scenario if one of the team is locally/nationally ranked and obviously looking to impress? Difference?
Personally I think things like full- and half-court presses that are strategies to create turnovers/points when you're up by ridiculous amounts with little time left are dumb, but I don't begrudge any coach who tries to score points in a game at any time.

And I disagree that telling your kids to stop trying to score points is teaching them good life lessons. What about "always try your best" or does that only apply when you're sucking at life? Passing up a wide-open layup is not teaching anyone anything about anything.

There is a distinction between intentionally running up the score and trying your best and good coaches recognize this and are able to walk that fine line.
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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 01:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC_Ref12
Personally I think things like full- and half-court presses that are strategies to create turnovers/points when you're up by ridiculous amounts with little time left are dumb, but I don't begrudge any coach who tries to score points in a game at any time.

And I disagree that telling your kids to stop trying to score points is teaching them good life lessons. What about "always try your best" or does that only apply when you're sucking at life? Passing up a wide-open layup is not teaching anyone anything about anything.

There is a distinction between intentionally running up the score and trying your best and good coaches recognize this and are able to walk that fine line.
As someone who also coaches, I agree there is a fine line between "always trying your best" and "kicking someone when their down." You shouldn't pass up an open layup - but, you don't need to cherry pick, or fastbreak every play, press, etc.
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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 01:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar
As someone who also coaches, I agree there is a fine line between "always trying your best" and "kicking someone when their down." You shouldn't pass up an open layup - but, you don't need to cherry pick, or fastbreak every play, press, etc.
I agree.

(extra characters since I apparently am not allowed to make a post fewer than 10 characters.)
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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 01:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC_Ref12
I agree.

(extra characters since I apparently am not allowed to make a post fewer than 10 characters.)
Really?
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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 02:21pm
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I can
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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 03:35pm
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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 04:15pm
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As another official who also coaches, please know that some teams get bent out of shape if you win by 10, or 15. I have had and seen plenty of teams blow a 15 point lead in the 4th quarter, and a lot of times it was because they didn't want to be seen as "running up the score".

For some reason, we get to the point of thinking that we have to stop scoring and keep it close. My job is not to keep the score close. My job is also not to stop my team from scoring--that is the other coach's job.

That said, I can usually tell immediately if we are just having great success against an equally matched team (and keep all the pressure on) or if the team we are playing is vastly inferior in skill to our team. If it is the latter, then the press comes off almost immediately, we do not fast break, we still play man to man but do not pressure the ball until the top of the key. If it is really, really bad we might also go to a tight zone and not challenge outside shots.

However, each coach reads each situation differently, and yes, sadly, some are just jerks who don't care.
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Old Thu Feb 22, 2007, 04:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big2Cat
As another official who also coaches, please know that some teams get bent out of shape if you win by 10, or 15. I have had and seen plenty of teams blow a 15 point lead in the 4th quarter, and a lot of times it was because they didn't want to be seen as "running up the score".

For some reason, we get to the point of thinking that we have to stop scoring and keep it close. My job is not to keep the score close. My job is also not to stop my team from scoring--that is the other coach's job.

That said, I can usually tell immediately if we are just having great success against an equally matched team (and keep all the pressure on) or if the team we are playing is vastly inferior in skill to our team. If it is the latter, then the press comes off almost immediately, we do not fast break, we still play man to man but do not pressure the ball until the top of the key. If it is really, really bad we might also go to a tight zone and not challenge outside shots.

However, each coach reads each situation differently, and yes, sadly, some are just jerks who don't care.
Yeah that's a good point and I am certainly not the type to get between a losing team and a good azz whuppin. But I'm pretty sure the visiting coach was miffed because he had just emptied his bench.
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