I won't forget this...

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I hope so, as some coaches can be such a$$es.

I had a coach who's worst player was taller and better than the other team's best. Yet, up 40, he insisted on playing a tight man to man and picking up the press at mid-court.

Had another coach who's team was up 50 and was not allowing his boys any fast breaks, used a soft zone, used his subs, ran his offense methodically and really tried NOT to run it up (he could have won by 100). Now he was teaching his players a better life lesson.

Any thoughts on this scenario if one of the team is locally/nationally ranked and obviously looking to impress? Difference?

Personally I think things like full- and half-court presses that are strategies to create turnovers/points when you're up by ridiculous amounts with little time left are dumb, but I don't begrudge any coach who tries to score points in a game at any time.

And I disagree that telling your kids to stop trying to score points is teaching them good life lessons. What about "always try your best" or does that only apply when you're sucking at life? Passing up a wide-open layup is not teaching anyone anything about anything.

There is a distinction between intentionally running up the score and trying your best and good coaches recognize this and are able to walk that fine line.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

Personally I think things like full- and half-court presses that are strategies to create turnovers/points when you're up by ridiculous amounts with little time left are dumb, but I don't begrudge any coach who tries to score points in a game at any time.

And I disagree that telling your kids to stop trying to score points is teaching them good life lessons. What about "always try your best" or does that only apply when you're sucking at life? Passing up a wide-open layup is not teaching anyone anything about anything.

There is a distinction between intentionally running up the score and trying your best and good coaches recognize this and are able to walk that fine line.

As someone who also coaches, I agree there is a fine line between "always trying your best" and "kicking someone when their down." You shouldn't pass up an open layup - but, you don't need to cherry pick, or fastbreak every play, press, etc.

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by grunewar

As someone who also coaches, I agree there is a fine line between "always trying your best" and "kicking someone when their down." You shouldn't pass up an open layup - but, you don't need to cherry pick, or fastbreak every play, press, etc.

I agree.

(extra characters since I apparently am not allowed to make a post fewer than 10 characters.)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

I agree.

(extra characters since I apparently am not allowed to make a post fewer than 10 characters.)

Really?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

I can

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I can

That's cheating!

[Big2Cat]

As another official who also coaches, please know that some teams get bent out of shape if you win by 10, or 15. I have had and seen plenty of teams blow a 15 point lead in the 4th quarter, and a lot of times it was because they didn't want to be seen as "running up the score".

For some reason, we get to the point of thinking that we have to stop scoring and keep it close. My job is not to keep the score close. My job is also not to stop my team from scoring--that is the other coach's job.

That said, I can usually tell immediately if we are just having great success against an equally matched team (and keep all the pressure on) or if the team we are playing is vastly inferior in skill to our team. If it is the latter, then the press comes off almost immediately, we do not fast break, we still play man to man but do not pressure the ball until the top of the key. If it is really, really bad we might also go to a tight zone and not challenge outside shots.

However, each coach reads each situation differently, and yes, sadly, some are just jerks who don't care.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by mplagrow

That's cheating!

is not

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mplagrow

That's cheating!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mplagrow

That's cheating!

Is it?

[MJT]

Originally Posted by grunewar

As someone who also coaches, I agree there is a fine line between "always trying your best" and "kicking someone when their down." You shouldn't pass up an open layup - but, you don't need to cherry pick, or fastbreak every play, press, etc.

I also am a coach and official and agree, but you must be fair to your subs. I continue to coach my subs until the game is over and we will not press, but play tight man to man defense and those players will do their best to score and play good defense. I will be as intense with them by encouraging, pushing, teaching, and chewing on them as I am in the 1st qtr. They deserve that! I think it is terrible when a coach pulls his starters out and sits back and says nothing the rest of the game, as if he is an uninterested spectator. They are doing their best, and as a coach you should never stop teaching.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MJT

I also am a coach and official and agree, but you must be fair to your subs. I continue to coach my subs until the game is over and we will not press, but play tight man to man defense and those players will do their best to score and play good defense. I will be as intense with them by encouraging, pushing, teaching, and chewing on them as I am in the 1st qtr. They deserve that! I think it is terrible when a coach pulls his starters out and sits back and says nothing the rest of the game, as if he is an uninterested spectator. They are doing their best, and as a coach you should never stop teaching.

Agreed, but calling a TO with 1 minute left in a 20 pt blowout for any reason other than putting the subs in? Tacky. As an official, I'll forget about it. As an opposing coach; not so much.

My senior year in baseball we were getting beat pretty bad one game. About the 5th inning, we're down by around 8 runs or so, and the other team is still stealing bases. I didn't even think twice about it, nor did any of my teammates, until their coach gave a half-azz apology to our coach, saying they needed to practice stealing bases. We had a decent team (won conference that year), but had a poor game that night. Personally, I would have rather heard the coach say he didn't feel the lead was safe; or rather he not said anything.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed, but calling a TO with 1 minute left in a 20 pt blowout for any reason other than putting the subs in? Tacky. As an official, I'll forget about it. As an opposing coach; not so much.

My senior year in baseball we were getting beat pretty bad one game. About the 5th inning, we're down by around 8 runs or so, and the other team is still stealing bases. I didn't even think twice about it, nor did any of my teammates, until their coach gave a half-azz apology to our coach, saying they needed to practice stealing bases. We had a decent team (won conference that year), but had a poor game that night. Personally, I would have rather heard the coach say he didn't feel the lead was safe; or rather he not said anything.

I agree. I will not stop coaching them from the bench, but I will not call a TO, call a set play, press, or anything like that either. I just want them to play our style of ball and do so as good as they can.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

Personally I think things like full- and half-court presses that are strategies to create turnovers/points when you're up by ridiculous amounts with little time left are dumb, but I don't begrudge any coach who tries to score points in a game at any time.

And I disagree that telling your kids to stop trying to score points is teaching them good life lessons. What about "always try your best" or does that only apply when you're sucking at life? Passing up a wide-open layup is not teaching anyone anything about anything.

There is a distinction between intentionally running up the score and trying your best and good coaches recognize this and are able to walk that fine line.

I disagree with you. #1.) you don't tell your players not to score. I disagree using bb to teach life lessons, however, both coaches and officials alike draw some very good conclusions on what they do or call in a game that should teach good quality behavior later in life, even if that life might pertain to playing bb at a high level. However, you don't have to tell your players not to score. That thinking is shadow, weak, and IMO stupid. This is why I suggest all coaches should go thru some type of certification before they become coaches. Because of idiots like you, who have a one-track, one size, one way fits all mentality.

If you knew anything about coaching, whenever a coach whose behind late in the game sends in a group of players who has not played. He's throwing in the white towel, I give up. #2.) When you're way ahead and you don't need to score anymore points and you know you can score on these guys at will. Rather than tell your players not to score. How about you run a play. How about everybody touch the ball 5 times before we shoot. How about (my coaching mind) since it's obvious these guys I'm playing don't know how to score, let's force them to play defense. In other words, we're going to play keep away, and force them to try and steal the ball. I designate that the only person that can shoot is my worse shooter on the team. I just thought of this in the few minutes I'm sitting here writing this paragraph. There are lots of situation and things you can work on as a team besides score, score, score. I just love to see teams that like to run it up on inferior talent, get beat.

What about the tactic. I'm ahead late in the game. How about I just keep the ball for the last 2 minutes of the game. Perfect time to work on this. I remember one team I ref'd several years ago. Team was only ahead by 5 or 6 points. They kept the ball for the last 4 or 5 minutes of the last quarter and won the game. The other team couldn't get the ball back. They couldn't foul them because they would pass the ball before the foul got there. Very discipline. Total team effort. The other team was not bad, in fact it was a close game, which is why they didn't go to the all out foul. The strategy work to perfection. That took some practice to get it to work that good.

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by Old School

I disagree with you.

Good. That means I'm pretty much on the right track.