Unanswered Timeout question

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

DC, how many times have you seen this happen? You've ref'd games, you've attended games, you've probably played in a few. Have you ever seen it happen?

I doubt we are suddenly going to have an epidemic of coaches using this ploy. Don't you think it already would have been tried?

You're right, I don't think it's an epidemic, but then again, I doubt many coaches know about this rule and how each ref would apply it. Maybe I'm wrong about that, though?

I've seen it happen a couple times but, yeah, I don't think it's an epidemic.

[Nevadaref]

One more reason to return to take away the head coach's ability to request a time-out during a live ball. Let that come from the players. Allow the head coach to request only during a dead ball, possibly with the exception of following a made goal.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

One more reason to return to take away the head coach's ability to request a time-out during a live ball. Let that come from the players. Allow the head coach to request only during a dead ball, possibly with the exception of following a made goal.

The amount of times either of the situations discussed occurs is no reason to take away the coaches ability to call a TO. I think when you think you here it, try to get a quick visual to confirm and then blow your whistle.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by MJT

The amount of times either of the situations discussed occurs is no reason to take away the coaches ability to call a TO.

POE 3A in this year's rule book ---"Coaches attempting to call a time-out during playing action are a continuing problem."

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

One more reason to return to take away the head coach's ability to request a time-out during a live ball. Let that come from the players. Allow the head coach to request only during a dead ball, possibly with the exception of following a made goal.

I'm okay with, if we go to only allowing them to call a TO during a dead ball, to not make any exceptions for after a made goal. If they can get our attention quickly enough (before the ball becomes live again), let them call it.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

POE 3A in this year's rule book ---"Coaches attempting to call a time-out during playing action are a continuing problem."

Why are they a continuing problem? I coach BB and officiate it and very rarely have had, or have seen a problem.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by MJT

The amount of times either of the situations discussed occurs is no reason to take away the coaches ability to call a TO.

You're right. There are much better reasons to take away the coaches' ability to call a TO. Like the fact that you have to divert your attention from the game to verify that it's the HC making the request. Like the fact that they get insanely pissed off when you don't hear them asking for one and act as if you've denied them some inalienable right. The fact that sometimes a coach will ask for one, just to stop the clock, then deny he asked for it? That's just one reason out of many.

[Adam]

I'm with BITS on this. My guess is the reason for the POE is there are too many officials granting TOs when they shouldn't.
The reason I'd like to see it go away is I'd rather not have to worry about looking at a coach standing behind me to verify it's him when there's a scrum for the ball right in front of me.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by MJT

Why are they a continuing problem? I coach BB and officiate it and very rarely have had, or have seen a problem.

Did you read that POE? It tells you why the FED thinks it's a problem.

Btw, it's not me saying that, even though I completely agree with it. It's the NFHS rulesmakers that issue these POE's. If the NFHS says that it's a continuing problem, they're doing so from feedback received from across the country. And seeing that the NFHS issued similar POE's in the 2003-04 and 2004-05 rule books, it must be a problem that the FED thinks is on-going.

Imo, this is one of the worst rules ever. This is the most common problem with it. You've got a press going in the last minute with the ball right in front of you. The defenders are all over the dribbler. You're standing right in front of the offensive team's bench with your back to it. The crowd is noisy as hell. You think that you hear "timeout" behind you. Soooooooo......now you're supposed to turn, make sure that it's the head coach requesting the TO and also make sure that he really wants a TO. Don't think so. I ain't taking my eyes off the play. But.........the common sense associated with doing that sureasheck doesn't make no nevermind to the head coach. You're still gonna get the coach whining at you because he didn't immediately get the TO that he wanted. Or, as is being posted here, he'll say that he didn't want that TO and wasn't calling one-- even though his team benefited from the whistle.

Again, terrible rule imo.

[MJT]

I agree, coaches need to be more understanding, but as a coach I'll tell you, you REALLY like that rule! If they change it the coaches will just have adjust.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MJT

I agree, coaches need to be more understanding, but as a coach I'll tell you, you REALLY like that rule! If they change it the coaches will just have adjust.

You mean like they did up until a few years ago. The biggest change I've noticed associated with this rule is that players no longer "echo" their coach's TO request. All season in HS, AAU, and MS, I had exactly one team consistently echo their coach's request for a TO. One.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

One more reason to return to take away the head coach's ability to request a time-out during a live ball. Let that come from the players. Allow the head coach to request only during a dead ball, possibly with the exception of following a made goal.

The ball is dead after a made goal, up until the point it is at disposal, so no exception would have to be made.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by eyezen

The ball is dead after a made goal, up until the point it is at disposal, so no exception would have to be made.

I think Nevada was saying he'd consider not allowing a coach-requested TO during this particular dead ball.

[BillyMac]

From Jurassic Referee: "This is one of the worst rules ever. This is the most common problem with it. You've got a press going in the last minute with the ball right in front of you. The defenders are all over the dribbler. You're standing right in front of the offensive team's bench with your back to it. The crowd is noisy as hell. You think that you hear "timeout" behind you. Now you're supposed to turn, make sure that it's the head coach requesting the TO and also make sure that he really wants a TO. Don't think so. I ain't taking my eyes off the play. But the common sense associated with doing that sureasheck doesn't make no nevermind to the head coach. You're still gonna get the coach whining at you because he didn't immediately get the TO that he wanted. Or, as is being posted here, he'll say that he didn't want that TO and wasn't calling one, even though his team benefited from the whistle. Again, terrible rule."

Jurassic Referee: Great post. Maybe one of your best, certainly one of your top one-hundred. We're both veteran officials, so we both remember a time when only players, while controlling the ball, were allowed to call, and be granted, a timeout. Since we were always facing the players, we knew which team had control of the ball, and could easily see which team was requesting a timeout. I hated this rule change from the first season it was introduced. I have discussed changing this rule back to the previous rule with my local board interpreter. He, and our state board interpreter, agree with me, but he claims the rule will never be changed back, because coaches love the rule and coaches are better represented than officials when it comes to the NFHS making rule changes.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I think Nevada was saying he'd consider not allowing a coach-requested TO during this particular dead ball.

That's exactly right. This dead ball still occurs during playing action and would require an official to divert his attention from the players on the court to recognize the TO request coming from the coach. I'm against anything that requires an official to look away from the action on the floor during play.