Fighting

[BillyMac]

Ref Daddy:

You're right. I had to look it up. The NFHS defines "fighting" as "acts that involve opponents", Rule 4-18-1,2.

However, the beginning of this rule states that fighting includes, but "is not limited to", acts mentioned in Article 1 and 2.

Does this mean that we can penalize teammates for fighting, possibly under Rule 10-3-9 "fighting", or under Rule 10-3-7 "unsporting fouls" which also includes the phrase "not limited to" ?

Or perhaps we can't penalize fighting teammates at all ?

Forum members. Help me out. I've always assumed that I could penalize any fighting during a basketball game. Maybe? Maybe not?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Ref Daddy:

You're right. I had to look it up. The NFHS defines "fighting" as "acts that involve opponents", Rule 4-18-1,2.

However, the beginning of this rule states that fighting includes, but "is not limited to", acts mentioned in Article 1 and 2.

Does this mean that we can penalize teammates for fighting, possibly under Rule 10-3-9 "fighting", or under Rule 10-3-7 "unsporting fouls" which also includes the phrase "not limited to" ?

Or perhaps we can't penalize fighting teammates at all ?

Forum members. Help me out. I've always assumed that I could penalize any fighting during a basketball game. Maybe? Maybe not?

Billy--

You can penalize a fight any way you deem it needs to be penalized. If someone questions it, cite Rule 2-3.

[deecee]

i think a fight between teammates that does not effect the game should be the coach's problem. how is a T on that team and 2 ejections going to make any thing better - those 2 kids still have to be on the same bench and the coach still has to deal with them. sounds like this situation is best handled by their coach and program. jmo

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by deecee

i think a fight between teammates that does not effect the game should be the coach's problem. how is a T on that team and 2 ejections going to make any thing better - those 2 kids still have to be on the same bench and the coach still has to deal with them. sounds like this situation is best handled by their coach and program. jmo

Are you serious? Just ignore a fight?

Lah me.....

[26 Year Gap]

Let's see that is 2 indirects to the coach. Tell him one more and he can escort those two to the locker room himself.

[TimTaylor]

Just my $0.02, but any team member (includes coaches, players, & other bench personnel) that throws a punch at anyone is history - Flagrant T, no exceptions. If they're bench personnel at the time, HC also gets an indirect. In Oregon, adults are ejected from the venue & players are DQ'd but stay on the bench.

If it solely invloves spectators, then suspend play until game management/security get it under control.

[deecee]

wtf is lah me...why get involved in a teams dirty laundry?

[JRutledge]

If fighting is defined as something between opponents, not sure I am going to get involved in that either. I really do not care what someone else might do.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by deecee

wtf is lah me...why get involved in a teams dirty laundry?

Great idea. Don't get involved. Get some popcorn and grab a good seat. Maybe get a couple of cheerleaders to carry those Round Number cards around. Hey, if it happens in the first half, maybe we can set up a re-match for the second half. And if the coach doesn't really feel like doing anything because it's his players and he don't want them suspended, and he decides to just put those players right back out on the court, hey, that's just peachy-keen too. Right?

Our responsibility is the game and it's participants. Somehow, I really don't think that any set of amateur rulesmakers in any sport would think that having a little ol' fight during the game is just fine with them, no matter who is fighting.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by deecee

i think a fight between teammates that does not effect the game should be the coach's problem. how is a T on that team and 2 ejections going to make any thing better - those 2 kids still have to be on the same bench and the coach still has to deal with them. sounds like this situation is best handled by their coach and program. jmo

A couple of years ago, there was a POE about unsporting behaviour being addressed even if it was directed at the same team. I seem to recall the example was the coach using profanity at his team during a TO. I'd use the same POE to address the fight.

Now, that said, I'd give more leeway to an ... animated discussion, or a slap or similar between teammates than I would if the actions were between opponents.

[deecee]

Jurassic in case you had a hard time reading what I wrote here it is again

i think a fight between teammates that does not effect the game should be the coach's problem. how is a T on that team and 2 ejections going to make any thing better - those 2 kids still have to be on the same bench and the coach still has to deal with them. sounds like this situation is best handled by their coach and program. jmo

if it effects the game then I will have to deal with it -- either a direct T on both and indirects on the coach if they are on the bench and spill into the court. if they are players (and I CANNOT IMAGINE THIS HAPPENING) I would have 2 direct T's (for unsporting conduct) again and a delay of game warning (or maybe a t if they had one of these earlier) for holding up the game. That's just how I would handle it and A flagrant T to me still somehow requires an opponent.

however if they get into it by the bench and we are playing I would play on -- however if it spillith on to my court then I have an issue.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by deecee

however if they get into it by the bench and we are playing I would play on -- however if it spillith on to my court then I have an issue.

Isn't the bench under your jurisdiction as well?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by deecee

if it effects the game then I will have to deal with it ...

however if they get into it by the bench and we are playing I would play on -- however if it spillith on to my court then I have an issue.

Patently freaking ridiculous imo. If they fight on the bench, just keep the game going. Play on folks. Don't mind that little brawl over there, folks. Just pretend it's not really happening. And if happens again next period, well, ignore it then too.

If it spilleth out onto the floor, what are you gonna call? Illegal substitution?

Btw, you said that you could not imagine that happening? Well, I've had it happen twice in high school football games. Once out on the field, once on the sideline. I didn't ignore either situation.

[deecee]

JR good for you

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Ref Daddy:

Does this mean that we can penalize teammates for fighting, possibly under Rule 10-3-9 "fighting", or under Rule 10-3-7 "unsporting fouls" which also includes the phrase "not limited to" ?

Bingo, but use R10-4-1 instead to cover bench personnel committing an unsporting foul. That says "bench personnel shall not commit an unsporting foul" and also uses the same "includes but not limited to" language. Whatintheheck could be deemed more "unsporting" than an actual fight, no matter who is fighting?