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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 12, 2002, 08:54am
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Question

Okay Mr. Jenkins,
You cited 10-3-10 to prove that fighting is a T, but have you read 10.4.4A?
A1 and B1 have a fight and are both charged with flagrant personal fouls!
Care to explain?

PS I'm on your side. I guess the casebook must be wrong.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 12, 2002, 09:45am
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Live Ball T's are Personal. Dead ball T's are Technical.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 12, 2002, 11:13am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Live Ball T's are Personal. Dead ball T's are Technical.
Live ball T's are T's-they can't be personal by definition.You know that,Bart!Must be a slip of the finger.

Fighting during a live ball is a flagrant personal foul.Fighting during a dead ball is a flagrant technical foul.Simple as that!
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Old Tue Nov 12, 2002, 01:02pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Okay Mr. Jenkins,
You cited 10-3-10 to prove that fighting is a T, but have you read 10.4.4A?
A1 and B1 have a fight and are both charged with flagrant personal fouls!
Care to explain?

PS I'm on your side. I guess the casebook must be wrong.
My only guess is the officials didn't initally declare the "punches" to be a fight, but simply flagrant personal fouls which grew into a fight.

10-3-10 is certainly one of the most unambiguous rules in the book: Fighting is a T. It makes no distinction between live and dead ball.

Fighting starts with the attempt to strike the opponent. It may or may not include contact. The penalty is for trying to hit the opponent.
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Old Tue Nov 12, 2002, 03:37pm
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Talking Here we go again!

Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Okay Mr. Jenkins,
You cited 10-3-10 to prove that fighting is a T, but have you read 10.4.4A?
A1 and B1 have a fight and are both charged with flagrant personal fouls!
Care to explain?

PS I'm on your side. I guess the casebook must be wrong.
If A1 throws a punch and doesn't make contact, are you going to call a personal foul?

I don't think so. It's fighting and it's a T.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 07:25pm
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Hey guys, please read 8.7A and then remember 10-3-10. Clearly they contradict. Yet another example of the rules committee not taking the time to make sure that the rules book and case book say the same thing. I find this frustrating as an official. See my other post: http://www.officialforum.com/thread/6278
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Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 07:30pm
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Talking Listen to JR

I should add that I will call this play the way JR says in his post and the way 8.7A spells out. I would recommend the rules committee simply add the phrase "during a dead ball." to 10-3-10.
I am going to take it upon myself to do that to my rules book!!! Hey, it's my rules book--I can write whatever I want in it.
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Old Thu Nov 14, 2002, 10:25pm
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Re: Listen to JR

Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
I should add that I will call this play the way JR says in his post and the way 8.7A spells out. I would recommend the rules committee simply add the phrase "during a dead ball." to 10-3-10.
I am going to take it upon myself to do that to my rules book!!! Hey, it's my rules book--I can write whatever I want in it.
But that wouldn't be correct, now would it?

A1 takes a swing at B1 during a live ball. That's fighting, a T and an ejection. No contact is made so it can't be personal, even though the ball is live.
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Old Fri Nov 15, 2002, 03:05am
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Re: Re: Listen to JR

Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
I should add that I will call this play the way JR says in his post and the way 8.7A spells out. I would recommend the rules committee simply add the phrase "during a dead ball." to 10-3-10.
I am going to take it upon myself to do that to my rules book!!! Hey, it's my rules book--I can write whatever I want in it.
But that wouldn't be correct, now would it?

A1 takes a swing at B1 during a live ball. That's fighting, a T and an ejection. No contact is made so it can't be personal, even though the ball is live.
How 'bout "fighting that involves contact during a live ball is a flagrant personal foul"!
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