Repeated Lane Violation

[RushmoreRef]

Sorry if this has been asked, couldn't find it.

Saw this 2-3 years ago...wasn't officiating the game but was interesting.

Team A leads by 1 point with two free throws....A misses the first and B calls a timeout. There is 2 seconds on the clock. B's last timeout and set's up a inbounds play for the game winning basket. B's coach tells B1, closest to the shooter to lane violate before A1 shoots, he wants A to make sure they make the free throw so they can run their OOB play. He tells the Trail that he is going to do this.

Play resumes, A1, the shooter misses two times, each followed by another shot because of the lane violation. A uses a timeout and coach instructs A1 to keep missing, but make sure he hits the rim....

Play resumes and A1 again misses followed by lane violation.....Next attempt A accidentally misses rim...B runs inbounds play and misses 1/2 court shot.

Now if this kept up, what would you have done? Talked to the officials afterward and they were having a hard time coming up with something...

[Adam]

Tell the coach you're going to call a technical foul.

Question: Who had the arrow? They should have called a double violation and gone with the arrow on the last one if they weren't going to call the T.

[RushmoreRef]

You mean the team that is violating, correct? Do they get a warning? Would it fall under the "actionless contest" ruling for a technical foul?

Thanks for the input.....that's kinda what I figured it would have to be.

Good question on the arrow and the last should have been a double violation.....It may have been that he messed up and banked it in.....

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RushmoreRef

You mean the team that is violating, correct? Do they get a warning? Would it fall under the "actionless contest" ruling for a technical foul?

If the coach tells me (as Trail) what he's going to do; I'm telling him right away that it'll be a T the 2nd time. I'll have to check my book when I get home tonight, but I'm pretty sure you have the right rule in mind.

[BillyMac]

There are some NFHS rules that deal with an actionless contest. Please see Rule 10-5 and note the words "similar acts". I don't think that the situation described in the thread falls into the category of being a "similiar act" resulting in an "actionless contest", but I'm sure some Forum members would be more than willing to contribute their opinion.

[actuary77]

Wouldn't the T be on the team committing the repeated lane violation due to unsportsmanlike conduct, i.e. trying to negate an opponent's obvious advantage? I seem to always read that phrase in the case book.

[blindzebra]

Wouldn't it have been smarter to just save the freaking timeout for the second miss? I'll never understand coaches.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Wouldn't it have been smarter to just save the freaking timeout for the second miss? I'll never understand coaches.

Maybe because 2 seconds were on the clock and there woulda been maybe only 1.7 after the miss and time out to go the full length of the floor?

Or they may not get even GET the rebound on a miss?

IMO good timeout.

But I woulda given a plan B to my team when A used his timeout...

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Maybe because 2 seconds were on the clock and there woulda been maybe only 1.7 after the miss and time out to go the full length of the floor?

Or they may not get even GET the rebound on a miss?

IMO good timeout.

But I woulda given a plan B to my team when A used his timeout...

No, it's a bad timeout, because the coach is knowingly and intentionally breaking the rules hoping to gain an advantge...that is completely unethical and actually breaks the NFHS Coaches Associations code of conduct.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

No, it's a bad timeout, because the coach is knowingly and intentionally breaking the rules hoping to gain an advantge...that is completely unethical and actually breaks the NFHS Coaches Associations code of conduct.

I can request 5 TO's per game...what rule did I break again?
What's unethical about giving another team a point?
Also, we coaches tell our kids to break the rules with one minute to go and we are losing by three, don't we????

With that outta the way, maybe you misunderstood what I said. I didn't mean to imply that I liked what he DID in the time out, I mearly responded to your reasoning on why he should have waited until the second miss.

I stand by my statements in the context to which I replied.

[lpneck]

Isn't the team that is purposefully missing the free throw just as responsible for allowing the game to develop into an actionless contest as the team who is committing the lane violation?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by lpneck

Isn't the team that is purposefully missing the free throw just as responsible for allowing the game to develop into an actionless contest as the team who is committing the lane violation?

What rules violation is the shooting team committing?

[lpneck]

Are you calling a technical foul because the game is turning into an actionless contest, or because one team is committing a violation? It seems to me there is a penalty in place to deal with the violation.

If you want to go the "actionless contest" route, I don't see how you can pick one team over the other when they are both responsible.

[Adam]

You have no way of determining if the shooting team is missing on purpose. Also, missing a free throw is not illegal and never has been. The defense, however, is making it obvious by repeating the mistake, even if the coach doesn't tell you so. By repeating this violation, the defensive team is gaining an advantage obviously not intended by the rules. There's your other justification.
There might be some justification for not seeing it, also.

[RushmoreRef]

As I look at these posts recently, I agree that the situation isn't resulting in an "actionless contest"..... It's probably a case where someone will give in eventually or not execute.....miss the rim (like happened) or accidentally make it....I talked with someone who was also at the game and the team violating had the arrow, so a simultaneous violation would have given them the arrow......for a spot throw in, correct?

I guess I would have a hard time stepping in and stopping this......I've looked and don't find anything that applies in the book.....It would make sense to issue a "delay" warning to the table and then a "T", but there's no delay definition that goes with this...