My Partner Asked Me If I Was T Happy

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Quote:


Does anyone else believe that that is incorrect?

As someone who's called 2 3-second violations in 3 years, I'd say it's close enough.

Have to say I'm with Dan on this one. The intracacies of the 3-second rule are impossible to explain without sounding like a moron to the coach, so why bother?

[Ignats75]

Art 1...The act of shooting begins simultaneously with the start of the try or tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight, and includes the airborne shooter.

Art 2...A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score two or three points by throwing the ball into a team's own basket. A player is trying for a goal when the player has the ball and in the official's judgement (italic's mine) is throwing or attempting to throw for goal. It is not essential that the ball leave the player's hand as a foul could prevent release of the ball.

Art 3...The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball

Art 4...The try ends when the throw is successful, when it is certain that the throw is unsuccessful, when the thrown ball touches the floor or when the ball becomes dead.

Art 5-8 has to do with taps and is not germain to this discussion.

Art 3 seems to include the pump fakes.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Art 3...The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball

Art 3 seems to include the pump fakes.

If I pump fake and then pass to my teammate, did I start and end a try for goal?

If I am fouled during this action, do I get two FTs?

Just wait till JR shows up.

[Ignats75]

I would give two shot if you were fouled on a pump fake. If you were to pump fake and then pass, I would probably call 3 seconds on you. Again, Art 3 of the definition of a try is the start of a shot. You can go up with a picture perfect jump shot and pass out of it at the top of your jump. Its still a try until you change it into a pass attempt.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I would give two shot if you were fouled on a pump fake.

I wouldn't. The shooter has not started a try. That foul is on the floor.

I guess this would be one of those situations where you had to be there to witness the action. If it was clearly a pump fake, then I would probably go with it on the floor. But if the foul was enough to possibly cause the shooter to withhold the shot, that might be a different story. It would be hard for me to say that it would definitely be one or the other and call it that way every time.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by PYRef

But if the foul was enough to possibly cause the shooter to withhold the shot, that might be a different story.

That makes no sense at all. If it causes the shooter to withhold the shot, the shooter then never shot. The foul would obviously have to be before the shot. And if the shooter never shot, you can't have a foul "in the act of shooting".

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I would give two shot if you were fouled on a pump fake. If you were to pump fake and then pass, I would probably call 3 seconds on you. Again, Art 3 of the definition of a try is the start of a shot. You can go up with a picture perfect jump shot and pass out of it at the top of your jump. Its still a try until you change it into a pass attempt.

If, in your judgement, it's a pump fake, why would you award FTs? The name implies that it's not a shot - it's a FAKE.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I would give two shot if you were fouled on a pump fake.

You would be wrong, as others have stated. If it's a "fake", then it ain't a "shot".

[Ignats75]

I'm not sure. The definition of a try says that it starts when the shooter "begins the motion that habitually precedes the release of the bal" It does not say the try begins with the LAST motion before the release of the ball. Might be worth asking the assignor of one of my conferences who is also one of the rules interpretors for the OHSAA. If I can find him under all this snow!

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I'm not sure. The definition of a try says that it starts when the shooter "begins the motion that habitually precedes the release of the bal" It does not say the try begins with the LAST motion before the release of the ball. Might be worth asking the assignor of one of my conferences who is also one of the rules interpretors for the OHSAA. If I can find him under all this snow!

The rule does NOT say that a try starts when the shooter begins a FAKE motion of what would habitually precede the release of the ball.

If you KNOW it's a fake, by definition, it can't be a try, because you have definite knowledge he's not taking a shot.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I'm not sure. The definition of a try says that it starts when the shooter "begins the motion that habitually precedes the release of the bal" It does not say the try begins with the LAST motion before the release of the ball. Might be worth asking the assignor of one of my conferences who is also one of the rules interpretors for the OHSAA. If I can find him under all this snow!

If your logic were correct, then a player dribbling from one end of the court to the other with only five seconds remaining and attempting a try would have started his try with the first movement that he made in the backcourt because due to the time left he was going for the basket.

It means the movement that begins the actual try. The one where the ball is released on the attempt to throw it into the goal. It does not include previous fakes anymore than it includes previous dribbles. Please notice that the rule says "release of the ball."

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I'm not sure. The definition of a try says that it starts when the shooter "begins the motion that habitually precedes the release of the bal" It does not say the try begins with the LAST motion before the release of the ball. Might be worth asking the assignor of one of my conferences who is also one of the rules interpretors for the OHSAA. If I can find him under all this snow!

Sooo...still feeling comfortable with the simple-easy-to-understand explanation of the 3 second rule you gave the coach?

(cheap shot I know, but I couldn't stop myself )