My Partner Asked Me If I Was T Happy

[Ignats75]

Saturday Night I had a Freshman/JV Doubleheader (Boys). In the Freshman game, the Home VARSITY coach was sitting on the bench. (I am LEAD) In the second quarter, the Frosh Coach was adamantly asking for 3 seconds. I went over to explain why it wasn't called. Player was making an offensvie move to the basket (Double-Pumping) and DID take a shot that he missed, got his own rebound, made a couple more Double Pumps---yep missed the shot and then got his own rebound again....Again double pumped a couple of time and finally scored and drew the foul.

After reporting to the table I went over to the coach to explain what I had. He was very upset because his best player got charged with the foul. I told him that as long as the player is making an offensive move, the three second count SUSPENDS and that double pumping is part of the attempt to shoot. He argued it a little bit, so I told him that was the rule and that I am not here to debate it. As I started to turn and move to the other side for the FTs, the Varsity coach started to pick the same argument. I began to bring out the dreaded stop sign when I realized that it wasn't the HC that was arguing but bench personnel. So I assessed a bench technical. No profanity. Just bench personnel arguing the same point after I already answered the HC. (It had started to get heated until I ended the first discussion)

My partner was approached by both the HC and the Varsity coach at the half, I overheard him say "I'll find out". So when we went to the locker room, he asked me what happened, and I explained the story just as I did here. He asked me if I was a little T happy. Now this is the third time we have worked together this year, and we are both some of the better JV level officials around and we work well together. I was taken aback by the question but gave him my reasoning why I didn't think so, since this was only my 3rd non-administrative T on a coach all year. (And the first with him as a partner)

Based on this explanation, does this sound to you like I was a little quick with the trigger?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Saturday Night I had a Freshman/JV Doubleheader (Boys). In the Freshman game, the Home VARSITY coach was sitting on the bench. (I am LEAD) In the second quarter, the Frosh Coach was adamantly asking for 3 seconds. I went over to explain why it wasn't called. Player was making an offensvie move to the basket (Double-Pumping) and DID take a shot that he missed, got his own rebound, made a couple more Double Pumps---yep missed the shot and then got his own rebound again....Again double pumped a couple of time and finally scored and drew the foul.

After reporting to the table I went over to the coach to explain what I had. He was very upset because his best player got charged with the foul. I told him that as long as the player is making an offensive move, the three second count SUSPENDS and that double pumping is part of the attempt to shoot. He argued it a little bit, so I told him that was the rule and that I am not here to debate it. As I started to turn and move to the other side for the FTs, the Varsity coach started to pick the same argument. I began to bring out the dreaded stop sign when I realized that it wasn't the HC that was arguing but bench personnel. So I assessed a bench technical. No profanity. Just bench personnel arguing the same point after I already answered the HC. (It had started to get heated until I ended the first discussion)

My partner was approached by both the HC and the Varsity coach at the half, I overheard him say "I'll find out". So when we went to the locker room, he asked me what happened, and I explained the story just as I did here. He asked me if I was a little T happy. Now this is the third time we have worked together this year, and we are both some of the better JV level officials around and we work well together. I was taken aback by the question but gave him my reasoning why I didn't think so, since this was only my 3rd non-administrative T on a coach all year. (And the first with him as a partner)

Based on this explanation, does this sound to you like I was a little quick with the trigger?

Find another partner -- one with his lips not planted on the V coach's backside.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Based on this explanation, does this sound to you like I was a little quick with the trigger?

Different areas have different expectations of behavior. To answer your question, you need to determine how a respected Varsity official would have dealt with the situation had the Varsity coach started the discussion and the assistant finished it (in a Varsity game).

[Junker]

I'm just nit-picking here, but did the coach ask you a direct question to cause you to go give him an explanation? If he's just complaining don't go to him, it will only lead to problems. If they have a legitimate question, head on over. I had the bad habit of initiating conversations with coaches early in my career. You're going to bring on more problems than you are going to solve if you are the one initiating the interaction.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

After reporting to the table I went over to the coach to explain what I had. He was very upset because his best player got charged with the foul. I told him that as long as the player is making an offensive move, the three second count SUSPENDS and that double pumping is part of the attempt to shoot. He argued it a little bit, so I told him that was the rule and that I am not here to debate it.


Based on this explanation, does this sound to you like I was a little quick with the trigger?

Nope, the technical foul was deserved. But.......

You went over to the coach because you did want to debate it. Unfortunately, no amount of debate will ever change a coach's mind in a situation like this. Your "debate" is like waving a red flag in his face. You'd be much better off to just make the call and then turn away and let him mutter to himself. If he goes too far, that's when you have to get get into a warning.

Ignats, silence will never get you into real trouble out there. Jmo.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by Junker

I'm just nit-picking here, but did the coach ask you a direct question to cause you to go give him an explanation? If he's just complaining don't go to him, it will only lead to problems. If they have a legitimate question, head on over. I had the bad habit of initiating conversations with coaches early in my career. You're going to bring on more problems than you are going to solve if you are the one initiating the interaction.

I was basically in front of his bench as I was reporting the foul to the table. He asked me point blank why I didn't call three seconds. A valid question on its own, despite this situation. I went to answer him for three reasons:

1. He asked a direct question about the reason for a call or non-call. Game Management dictates that I at least answer a direct question from a coach about a specific call.
2. If I ignore that same question, he will take a more antagonistic view of me because he would feel that I disrespected him. (and he would have a case)
3. He will continue to whine about three seconds which will annoy us to the point of whacking him anyway .

[Dan_ref]

Coach: "WHY DIDN'T YOU CALL 3 SECONDS??!"
You: "Because he didn't violate the rule"

Then walk away.

[Ignats75]

Coach: "WHY DIDN'T YOU CALL 3 SECONDS??!"
You: "Because he didn't violate the rule"

Then walk away.

Not bad. A little too flip and smarta$$y for me, but not bad.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Not bad. A little too flip and smarta$$y for me, but not bad.

How is that flip or smartass?

It's a concise explanation, period. Trying to drag a coach through a rules lesson never works. He doesn't want to hear about the rule, he wants to know why you screwed his player.

Don't be a willing paricipant.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Coach: "WHY DIDN'T YOU CALL 3 SECONDS??!"
You: "Because he didn't violate the rule"

Then walk away.

Great answer Dan.

[Ignats75]

flip

adjective
1. marked by casual disrespect; "a flip answer to serious question"; "the student was kept in for impudent behavior" [syn: impudent

Its obvious by my non-call that he didn't commit the violation so that is why I think that answer would be a little flip. Personally, I will always answer a coach's question about what I saw, if its done with respect. This time, it just went out of control and was handled with the T. I had no problems with the coach at all after that and he never really was the issue. I wasn't concerned that he didn't LIKE my answer, as I had started to walk away. The T was on his bench, not directly on him.

As a somewhat humorous aside, my partner DID call three seconds about 5:00 later ON THEM!!!! Now THAT was an unpopular call!!!!!

[jkjenning]

You handled the situation well Ignats; hopefully your partner will change his views. At the sub-Varsity level, give coaches and players less slack anyway. The Varsity coach was bench personnel - very nice to recognize that!

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Not bad. A little too flip and smarta$$y for me, but not bad.

I agree. I agree with everything that you did for the most part. Where you may have been able to get out of giving the T would have been when the V coach began questioning. The first complaining I hear in OUR direction from non-head coaches is a warning. The next time I give the T. The easiest thing for me to do is IGNORE them. I have no problem with your T. However, next time give the bench the STOP sign, ask the coach to control his bench, and IGNORE until you need to WHACK!!!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Its obvious by my non-call that he didn't commit the violation...

...so you decided to debate the intricacies of the rule with the coach anyway.

That worked out well, didn't it?

Here's some advice, you can take or leave:

Keep explanations as short and simple as possible except for unusual situations. A no call on a 3 second violation is hardly unusual.

[Ignats75]

Dan,

I think you are jumping to a conclusion. Here's a synopsis of what happened.

1. Foul
2. I report it
3. Coach asked question
4. I answered it with one sentence.
5. Coach didn't like it, but I didn't care and had started to walk away.
6. Bench personnel didn't like answer and tried to argue point
7. Turned back around, not to debat but warn the HC
8. Realized it was bench personnel who were arguing
9. Whacked the bench

There never was a debate.