My Partner Asked Me If I Was T Happy

[umpire99]

I usually work JV/Varsity double headers where the varsity assistant coach is the head coach in the JV game. I make it a point to give a T the first time the varsity coach says anything during the JV game since he is bench personnel. This sets the tone for the night that I am not going to take anything from either bench in either game.

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

There are no FTs for being in the act of faking!

lol...well put.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

lol...well put.

I could accept that if you can convince me that it doesn't violate the definition of 4-41-3

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

LOL

He answered with some nonsense and I interrupted him with, "Coach I'm not here for a debate." and I turned away....thats when the VHC got the whack.

Ignats, in your original post, you stated "After reporting to the table, I went over to the coach to explain what I had." Of course, it's gonna turn into a debate. You knew from the git-go that the coach didn't agree with your call. You shoulda also known that, in these types of situations, no amount of explanation was gonna change his mind. Jmo, but you're much better off to simply get away from an irate coach than approaching him and trying to reason with him. If he goes too far, warn him and then whack him. But at least give him a chance to cool himself down.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I could accept that if you can convince me that it doesn't violate the definition of 4-41-3

Alright. When, in a "fake", is the ball ever released, as per the language used in that article? If you never intend to release the ball, it is never a try.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Ignats, in your original post, you stated "After reporting to the table, I went over to the coach to explain what I had." Of course, it's gonna turn into a debate. You knew from the git-go that the coach didn't agree with your call. You shoulda also known that, in these types of situations, no amount of explanation was gonna change his mind. Jmo, but you're much better off to simply get away from an irate coach than approaching him and trying to reason with him. If he goes too far, warn him and then whack him. But at least give him a chance to cool himself down.

Hey, my short-armed friend. He wasn't irate. He asked the question, "Why wasn't there a 3 second call there?" A valid question, asked in a respectful enough tone. Why wouldn't I answer his question, particularly when I had to walk past him to get to the foul reporting area? And after I turned away, he didn't say anything else until he heard my whistle for a T. The T was on the bench, not him.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

He wasn't irate. He asked the question, "Why wasn't there a 3 second call there?" A valid question, asked in a respectful enough tone. Why wouldn't I answer his question, particularly when I had to walk past him to get to the foul reporting area? And after I turned away, he didn't say anything else until he heard my whistle for a T. The T was on the bench, not him.

Hey, if you said something while you were walking by the bench, no problem. Or if you said something while you were walking back into position, again no problem. However, if you went over to the coach after you reported, as you stated in your original post, then I think that you just made a mistake. That was my point. Do NOT go over to the bench area and the coach to hand out an explanation after you've reported. Keep t'hell away from the bench. No good can come of it, especially since you already know that they don't agree with your call.

Jmo, Ignats. Take it fwiw.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Hey, if you said something while you were walking by the bench, no problem. Or if you said something while you were walking back into position, again no problem. However, if you went over to the coach after you reported, as you stated in your original post, then I think that you just made a mistake. That was my point. Do NOT go over to the bench area and the coach to hand out an explanation after you've reported. Keep t'hell away from the bench. No good can come of it, especially since you already know that they don't agree with your call.

Jmo, Ignats. Take it fwiw.

Well put. I agree.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

After reporting to the table I went over to the coach to explain what I had. He was very upset because his best player got charged with the foul. I told him that as long as the player is making an offensive move, the three second count SUSPENDS and that double pumping is part of the attempt to shoot. He argued it a little bit, so I told him that was the rule and that I am not here to debate it. As I started to turn and move to the other side for the FTs, the Varsity coach started to pick the same argument. I began to bring out the dreaded stop sign when I realized that it wasn't the HC that was arguing but bench personnel. So I assessed a bench technical. No profanity. Just bench personnel arguing the same point after I already answered the HC. (It had started to get heated until I ended the first discussion)

Based on this explanation, does this sound to you like I was a little quick with the trigger?

Absolutely not! It ended the debate didn't it! Mission accomplished, and now seat-belt the Freshman coach. I like the no nonsense technical, I'm starting to lean this way myself because you don't show any emotion. You just out the clear blue, WHACK! for argueing with me, or technically, constant complaining. Another reason I like this technical is because I'm not debating 3-sec calls with anybody. If you don't check this right away, you will be hearing it the rest of the game, and it gets louder and louder.

I do have a weapon, I won't call it a secret weapon but it's something that works 90% of the time and I don't have to give a T, especially with calls like this. Feel free to use it. I grab my whistle and I look at the complaining coach and I'll say; "do you want to ref this game today?" "Tell you what, you ref the game and I'll sit down and coach." Most of the time the coaches will settle down and let me do my job, and it is my job to determine what is a 3-sec violation today, not theirs and I really don't care how you feel about it.

I'm not so sure I agree with your explanation about suspending the 3 second count based on the player pumping and headfaking. I don't think I would tell a coach that either. The count can get suspended if there's an interrupted dribble or player loses control of the ball. We do give the player a chance to score but it is possible to pick up a 3-sec violation, standing there headfaking. It's rarely called but it can happen.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

The count can get suspended if there's an interrupted dribble or player loses control of the ball.

Nope, the count does not get suspended, by rule, during loss of player control. As long as team control remains, the count continues. Feel free to ask a real official in your area; you know, the guys in stripes who have actually read the rule book.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

I do have a weapon, I won't call it a secret weapon but it's something that works 90% of the time and I don't have to give a T, especially with calls like this. Feel free to use it. I grab my whistle and I look at the complaining coach and I'll say; "do you want to ref this game today?" "Tell you what, you ref the game and I'll sit down and coach." Most of the time the coaches will settle down and let me do my job, and it is my job to determine what is a 3-sec violation today, not theirs and I really don't care how you feel about it.

This might work with rec league coaches, but I can virtually guarantee if you try this with a high school or college coach, you have at least an 82.5783468018% chance of moving to a technical foul within 3.7 seconds (not taking into account the time it takes tomegun to issue and retract his stop sign.)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

The T was on the bench, not him.

I hope that you identified the offender on the bench and charged that person with a directly technical foul and the Head Coach with an indirect.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

This might work with rec league coaches, but I can virtually guarantee if you try this with a high school or college coach, you have at least an 82.5783468018% chance of moving to a technical foul within 3.7 seconds (not taking into account the time it takes tomegun to issue and retract his stop sign.)

The obvious answer to "Tell you what, you ref the game and I'll sit down and coach" is "I might as well, seeing the sh!tty job you're doing". And in Old School's case, the coach would probably be right.

Yup, never say nonsense like that to any coach outside of rec leagues. Even in rec leagues, it's not a good idea because you're just baiting the coach right back. Either deal with it or ignore it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Nope, the count does not get suspended, by rule, during loss of player control. As long as team control remains, the count continues. Feel free to ask a real official in your area; you know, the guys in stripes who have actually read the rule book.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The obvious answer to "Tell you what, you ref the game and I'll sit down and coach"

No - it's "Let's switch places. You come out here and ref and I'll sit on the bench and act like a jackass."

Davism #3.