My Partner Asked Me If I Was T Happy

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

Disagree, there is no team control during a loss or interrupted dribble.

You already know what to do? Yeah, right.

NFHS rule 4-12-2 --"A team is in control of the ball when a player of a team is in control, while a live ball is being passed among teammates and during an interrupted dribble".

NFHS rule 4-12-3- "Team control continues until:
(a) the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.
(b) The opponents secure control.
(c)The ball becomes dead."

NFHS rule 4-12-4-- "While a ball remains live, a loose ball always remains in control of the team whose player last had control, unless it is a try or tap for goal".

If you actually owned a rule book, you would have known that. It's a basic.


-Edited to remove the same comment that Bob J. removed....

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

Disagree, there is no team control during a loss or interrupted dribble. If players are scrapping for the ball, I'm not going to blow my whistle 3 seconds in the lane and he or a member of the offense doesn't have control of the ball.

I've made this call, and guess what, I have the rules to back me up. One of maybe 4 3-second calls I've made this season; probably the only one I've made this year above the middle school level.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

I do have a weapon, I won't call it a secret weapon but it's something that works 90% of the time and I don't have to give a T, especially with calls like this. Feel free to use it. I grab my whistle and I look at the complaining coach and I'll say; "do you want to ref this game today?" "Tell you what, you ref the game and I'll sit down and coach." Most of the time the coaches will settle down and let me do my job, and it is my job to determine what is a 3-sec violation today, not theirs and I really don't care how you feel about it.

This might work with rec league coaches, but I can virtually guarantee if you try this with a high school or college coach, you have at least an 82.5783468018% chance of moving to a technical foul within 3.7 seconds (not taking into account the time it takes tomegun to issue and retract his stop sign.)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

This might work with rec league coaches, but I can virtually guarantee if you try this with a high school or college coach, you have at least an 82.5783468018% chance of moving to a technical foul within 3.7 seconds (not taking into account the time it takes tomegun to issue and retract his stop sign.)

The obvious answer to "Tell you what, you ref the game and I'll sit down and coach" is "I might as well, seeing the sh!tty job you're doing". And in Old School's case, the coach would probably be right.

Yup, never say nonsense like that to any coach outside of rec leagues. Even in rec leagues, it's not a good idea because you're just baiting the coach right back. Either deal with it or ignore it.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The obvious answer to "Tell you what, you ref the game and I'll sit down and coach"

No - it's "Let's switch places. You come out here and ref and I'll sit on the bench and act like a jackass."

Davism #3.

[Ignats75]

OK...Proving that I am not infallible , I have heard back from my assignor/interpretor. Pump fakes should not cause the three point count to suspend. Only an actual move to the basket should do that. Obviously, that also clears up my confusion regarding shooting fouls.

I humbly bow to you others who were right.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

This might work with rec league coaches, but I can virtually guarantee if you try this with a high school or college coach, you have at least an 82.5783468018% chance of moving to a technical foul within 3.7 seconds (not taking into account the time it takes tomegun to issue and retract his stop sign.)

That would be a bad guarantee. I have done this many of times with college coaches and the like and the results have always been the same. It ended the discussion and I didn't have to access a T. To me it is a unique and intelligent way to say, I'm done talking about this subject and we're going to move on. Now, in the rare case where we can't move on.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The obvious answer to "Tell you what, you ref the game and I'll sit down and coach" is "I might as well, seeing the sh!tty job you're doing". And in Old School's case, the coach would probably be right.

Yup, never say nonsense like that to any coach outside of rec leagues. Even in rec leagues, it's not a good idea because you're just baiting the coach right back. Either deal with it or ignore it.

This type of response doesn't surprise me coming from you JR. You have that throw an official under the bus mentallity. Now tell me, how does it feel? Go ahead and share.

However, in the rare event that a coach was to make a statement like this. He's done for the day. Doesn't matter how many technicals he got. If he has zero T's for the day, he's still ejected. Remember, you don't have to give a coach 2 technical before he's ejected. In fact, if he was to say something like that to me. I would go into my old baseball umpire routine and give him the hee-hoe, you're out of here! mechanic. And yes, I do have a flare for the dramatic when you get stupid with me.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

1) This type of response doesn't surprise me coming from you JR. You have that throw an official under the bus mentallity. Now tell me, how does it feel? Go ahead and share.

2) However, in the rare event that a coach was to make a statement like this. He's done for the day.

1) Not applicable in your case. You're not an official.

2) Great idea. Bait the coach into saying something and then toss him when he does. Excellent advice for the aspiring rec league official. Warning: Not to be used elsewhere though.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

That would be a bad guarantee. I have done this many of times with college coaches and the like and the results have always been the same. It ended the discussion and I didn't have to access a T. To me it is a unique and intelligent way to say, I'm done talking about this subject and we're going to move on. Now, in the rare case where we can't move on.

First of all, it's not unique just because you haven't seen anyone else use it. It might just mean it's not effective. Second of all, just because you think it's witty doesn't mean it's intelligent. There's a difference, but when you grow up, you'll know that.

Thirdly, you misspelled intramural again.

[Old School]

I'm going to throw this out here and then I'm going to leave it at that. I have better things to do than to spend my day argueing with referees who like to throw other referees under the bus. If you want to call a 3-second lane violation during an interrupted dribble, that is you. Do what you think is right. I'm not going there. However, the rule also states.

"When a team secures control, that team remains in control until the ball is in flight...., or an opponent has secured control. This has an influenence on rules such as team control fouls, 3-seconds violations, and frontcourt/backcourt. No team (repeat JR), no team has control while the ball is dead, during a throw-in or jump, nor during the period following any of these acts when the ball is slapped away from other players in an attempt to secure control.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Old School

I'm going to throw this out here and then I'm going to leave it at that.

Thank you.

However, the rule also states.

"When a team secures control, that team remains in control until the ball is in flight...., or an opponent has secured control. This has an influenence on rules such as team control fouls, 3-seconds violations, and frontcourt/backcourt. No team (repeat JR), no team has control while the ball is dead, during a throw-in or jump, nor during the period following any of these acts when the ball is slapped away from other players in an attempt to secure control.

Note the wordds "following any of these acts" where "these acts" refers to dead ball, thorw-in, or jump. It doesn't refer to "interrupted dribble" or "loose ball during team control"

In practice, I agree that three-seconds is rarely called during an interrupted dribble. But, by rule the count continues.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

"When a team secures control, that team remains in control until the ball is in flight...., or an opponent has secured control. This has an influenence on rules such as team control fouls, 3-seconds violations, and frontcourt/backcourt. No team (repeat JR), no team has control while the ball is dead, during a throw-in or jump, nor during the period following any of these acts when the ball is slapped away from other players in an attempt to secure control.

Well, now that you've found a rule book, we need to work on your reading comprehension. It's a start.

Let's start with you first colorized statement. Team control continues; this influences rules such as three second violations. Guess what this means, three second counts continue as long as there is team control.

Now, your second colorized statement. Read what comes before it; "no team has control while the ball is dead, during a throwin or jump ball," it then continues to say, "nor during the period following any of these acts." This means, there is no team control following a throwin if players are still swatting at it trying to get it. It doesn't mean team control ends while players swat at the ball.

It's a valiant effort, but the rule book is apparently over your head.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

However, the rule also states.

"When a team secures control, that team remains in control until the ball is in flight...., or an opponent has secured control. This has an influenence on rules such as team control fouls, 3-seconds violations, and frontcourt/backcourt. No team (repeat JR), no team has control while the ball is dead, during a throw-in or jump, nor during the period following any of these acts when the ball is slapped away from other players in an attempt to secure control.

Yes, it surely does say that. And just as surely, you don't have a clue what those rules statements are actually telling you. All of that is ONLY relevant when there has been NO team control established yet. It has got absolutely nothing to do with any situation that occurs AFTER team control has been established and BEFORE it is lost. That includes a 3-second call on an interrupted dribble.

Don't try to fake something that you don't know, Old School. This isn't a rec league that you're dealing with here. There's real, live officials on this forum. People that own real, honest-to- goodness rule books too, and actually know what's in them.

[Big2Cat]

Originally Posted by Old School

I do have a weapon, I won't call it a secret weapon but it's something that works 90% of the time and I don't have to give a T, especially with calls like this. Feel free to use it. I grab my whistle and I look at the complaining coach and I'll say; "do you want to ref this game today?" "Tell you what, you ref the game and I'll sit down and coach." Most of the time the coaches will settle down and let me do my job, and it is my job to determine what is a 3-sec violation today, not theirs and I really don't care how you feel about it.

I officiate football as well, and I also coach a junior high football team. I had an official say that exact line to me one time and he was quite surprised when I said "Yes" and stuck out my hand for his whistle. He didn't know what to do, and then just walked away muttering. I doubt he still uses that line.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

I officiate football as well, and I also coach a junior high football team. I had an official say that exact line to me one time and he was quite surprised when I said "Yes" and stuck out my hand for his whistle. He didn't know what to do, and then just walked away muttering. I doubt he still uses that line.

I would have told you like I told this one coach. First thing you gonna have to do is go get a shirt. The next thing you're going to need is somebody to give you an assignment because this assignmnet is mined and you can't have it. However, I do have an extra whistle! The key thing here is now we're not talking about the play or call in question anymore. I have gotten your attention off the call and on to something else in which I'm in control of, even if it's briefly, but the conversation is now going in a different direction and my hidden message is clear. I've taken about all I'm going to take from you tonight. Notice how I never said that.