Stop Sign

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Well, I'm afraid you aren't communicating very effectively. Perhaps you're pulling things out of your own ***. You certainly talk out of it quite often.

I've qualified my statements. I've stated the stop sign can be bad if not used correctly. I've also stated that it can be good when used properly. All you've ever written is that it's bad. Well guess what...you're wrong. It's not always a bad tool to use. I think the fact that we see a veteran ACC official use it in the biggest rivalry in college sports is a testament to that. But I guess you know more than he does.



I don't know that anyone has ever told me to talk to the hand or given me a stop sign. It's not something you run into in every day life.



It's a warning. I prefer to give a warning before giving a T. If you don't, then bang away!



Great. But don't ridicule everyone who doesn't do it your way! I'm not advocating that officials use it or not use it. OTOH that's exactly what you're doing.

I'm advocating officials not use anything in a robotic manner where they have to do steps 1, 2, 3 and 4. Life isn't like that. What I hope to have accomplish is provoke some thought about the fact that people communicate successfully with people everyday without giving them a stop sign. When a coach is coaching and I'm officiating, we are still people.

You speak of me not giving a warning. There you have it right there! You are basically saying you use it every time before you give a T and I think that is robotic. If you don't use it everytime, like you mentioned earlier, then you are giving a T without warning too. Is that right or wrong? If I tell a coach I've heard enough without throwing up my hand, is that not giving a warning.

If you have a dissagreement with your wife do you follow the same steps everytime? Probably not.

Basically, I chose to advocate not using a stop sign everytime by saying you shouldn't use one at all while you are (you remained mum a lot of the time when I mention it) saying it works in some situations, but not all. I say it is robotic, you just say (today) that it works some times and not all times. It seems like your stance is either quiet or generic.

You have mentioned the ACC several times and I can understand since you are in the middle of ACC country, but let me ask you a question. I've met Gary Maxwell and he seems like an OK guy/official to me (in other words the statement to follow isn't about him), but do you think that every official in a D1 conference got there because of their ability to officiate a basketball game? Surely you aren't that gullable.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Basically, I chose to advocate not using a stop sign everytime by saying you shouldn't use one at all while you are saying it works in some situations, but not all.

Just so that I'm on the record here too, Tom, I also think that a stop sign works fine in some situations, but certainly not in all situations. It's simply a non-verbal warning and you use it the same way as you use a verbal warning. It's one and done. it's just another tool in our toolbox. I can't see why it can't be used on appropriate occasions, and most experienced officials readily know what those appropriate occasions are too imo.

I know that it's a personal peeve of yours, but do you really feel that a stop sign should never be used? Or am I reading you wrong?

For the record, I certainly don't think that using a stop-sign is a game interrupter either.

[BktBallRef]

tomegun, that maybe the stupidest post you've ever posted on this forum.

I said I prefer to warn before I give a T. I never said I always do anything. No one here is advocating any type of robotic bull$hit. I have no idea WTF you came up with that idiotic crap.

Just because I don't reply every time you post on this topic, that means I'm remaining "mum?" LOL! I didn't know I was required to reply every time you post. Please resend the memo because I didn't get it.

Finally, Gary worked the biggest rivalry game in college basketball on Wednesday night. He was the alternate at the Final Four last year. he's respected across the country. But he was in these positions because of who he knows?

Right. It's apparent that you're already drunk, early on a Friday night.

I done with you. I just hope others keep responding to you so you want continue to mislead others. As for me, you're a waste of my time.

[Ref Daddy]

Rather the "Stop" or this?

[tomegun]

Thank you for putting me on your ignore list since you are acting like a dumba$$. I said I know Gary Maxwell, he is a good guy and I (literally) said my comments were not about him. How can I say my comments were not about him any clearer.

You are sitting there saying I'm drunk and you don't even know what day it is! It isn't Friday, it is Saturday.

You are hilarious - every time someone says something that you don't agree with you put them on your ignore list. Newsflash: you are not better than anyone else and you can be wrong sometimes. My sensationalizing of using the stop sign has caused a disagreement between us. I think the fact that you choose to exercise your right to ignore me because of this disagreement says something about how you react to disagreements and could indicate how you treat others who don't feel the same way you do. Pretty sad.

Jurassic, this is how I feel about the stop sign: there is a time and a place for it, but it isn't really for me. It just doesn't seem like is a natural part of non-confrontational communication to me. I will verbally warn a coach when appropriate and then continue with a technical foul. Just like you've pointed out, giving this public warning puts the official in a position where they must T a coach the next time something happens or else their credibility could suffer. My posts about stop signs came about because it seemed to me like many people were talking about using the stop sign as if it was a required step towards a coach getting a T. That is why I talk about it being robotic. So, no, I don't feel like the stop sign should never be used, but my personal preference would probably be to not use it. I won't say I will never use it because that would be an absolute I might not live up to.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Jurassic, this is how I feel about the stop sign: there is a time and a place for it, but it isn't really for me. It just doesn't seem like is a natural part of non-confrontational communication to me. I will verbally warn a coach when appropriate and then continue with a technical foul. Just like you've pointed out, giving this public warning puts the official in a position where they must T a coach the next time something happens or else their credibility could suffer. My posts about stop signs came about because it seemed to me like many people were talking about using the stop sign as if it was a required step towards a coach getting a T. That is why I talk about it being robotic. So, no, I don't feel like the stop sign should never be used, but my personal preference would probably be to not use it. I won't say I will never use it because that would be an absolute I might not live up to.

Sounds logical to me. It shouldn't be a required step imo either. It does have value in some circumstances though, also imo. One of those circumstances being loud, noisy gyms. Another one might be a tv or taped game where you want it on the record that you warned the coach and he ignored your warning, earning himself a "T".