Stop Sign

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

So since this particular official used the stop sign incorrectly, it's wrong for all officials to use it?

Bull$hit. That's like saying just because something doesn't work for one official, it should never be used by any official.

I have never had anyone show me how to use this signal "properly" or when to not use the signal. I have seen it used but as illustrated here, it works sometimes and does not work sometimes. I would rather use a signal that seems to have a better precentage of success.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You make it sound like every official who uses the stop sign is a poor communicator. That's totally and completely false. When I use it, it's because even though I've communicated all night long with a coach, he has now made it apparent that he isn't going to listen to me, know matter how much I've listened to him. It's my way of saying, "OKay caoch, I've listened to you, you're not listening to me, so I'm not listening any further. Enough." Now, if he can't understand that when I say, "Coach, I've heard enough," that's a warning, then he's going to find out that I was serious.

Should the stop sign be used only in certain situations at a certain point? Certainly. Is it wrong to use it appropriately? No, it is not.

BTW, the stop sign seemed to work pretty good when Gary Maxwell gave it to K on Wednesady night.

If it works for you and others it is your prerogative to do so. That does not mean that some of us cannot think it is a poor move. The T might have been completely justified, but as shown someone watching makes a judgment that the official was being the aggressor rather than reacting to bad behavior. Remember, perception is often reality. Life is not fair and people will draw conclusions we might not like.

I was sitting and talking with a guy in my association last night (with JeffPea as well) that works in the Big Ten and a couple of other D1 conferences in our region. We were talking about handling coaches and situations, not once did this official say anything about using the stop sign or making it the big deal we tend to make it hear. Every story or situation he talked about his words that worked than a gesture that seems to have very mixed response from the people that we are trying to influence. I do not think coaches got the memo that this means something specific.

Peace

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

So since this particular official used the stop sign incorrectly, it's wrong for all officials to use it?

Bull$hit. That's like saying just because something doesn't work for one official, it should never be used by any official.

You make it sound like every official who uses the stop sign is a poor communicator. That's totally and completely false. When I use it, it's because even though I've communicated all night long with a coach, he has now made it apparent that he isn't going to listen to me, know matter how much I've listened to him. It's my way of saying, "OKay caoch, I've listened to you, you're not listening to me, so I'm not listening any further. Enough." Now, if he can't understand that when I say, "Coach, I've heard enough," that's a warning, then he's going to find out that I was serious.

I don't think I ever said that it is wrong for all officials to use it because of this one situation. You pulled that out of your a$$.
Please don't tell me what I make something sound like; I hope to be able to communicate exactly what I want to get across.

When in your adult life has someone gave you a stop sign or told you to talk to the hand and you received it well AND stopped talking immediately?

One of the main reasons I don't like the stop sign is because people on here make it seem like it is a required step in the process to give a coach a T. Also, as pointed out earlier, the percentages aren't in your favor when using this tactic with another adult.

You know what my way of saying coach I've heard enough? I say, "Coach, I've heard enough." If you have been communicating with a coach all night long and they don't stop whatever it is they're doing, it is your problem if you have to give them a stop sign. If I have that situation it will more than likely end up in a technical foul.

You can do things how you like to do them and I will do things how I like to do them. Your way seems to be working for you and my way is working for me.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

You can do things how you like to do them and I will do things how I like to do them. Your way seems to be working for you and my way is working for me.

This is why some officials are successful and others are not. You have to do what works for you, not what works for other people.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I don't think I ever said that it is wrong for all officials to use it because of this one situation. You pulled that out of your a$$.
Please don't tell me what I make something sound like; I hope to be able to communicate exactly what I want to get across.

Well, I'm afraid you aren't communicating very effectively. Perhaps you're pulling things out of your own ***. You certainly talk out of it quite often.

I've qualified my statements. I've stated the stop sign can be bad if not used correctly. I've also stated that it can be good when used properly. All you've ever written is that it's bad. Well guess what...you're wrong. It's not always a bad tool to use. I think the fact that we see a veteran ACC official use it in the biggest rivalry in college sports is a testament to that. But I guess you know more than he does.

When in your adult life has someone gave you a stop sign or told you to talk to the hand and you received it well AND stopped talking immediately?

I don't know that anyone has ever told me to talk to the hand or given me a stop sign. It's not something you run into in every day life.

One of the main reasons I don't like the stop sign is because people on here make it seem like it is a required step in the process to give a coach a T. Also, as pointed out earlier, the percentages aren't in your favor when using this tactic with another adult.

It's a warning. I prefer to give a warning before giving a T. If you don't, then bang away!

You can do things how you like to do them and I will do things how I like to do them. Your way seems to be working for you and my way is working for me.

Great. But don't ridicule everyone who doesn't do it your way! I'm not advocating that officials use it or not use it. OTOH that's exactly what you're doing.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I don't think I ever said that it is wrong for all officials to use it because of this one situation. Please don't tell me what I make something sound like; I hope to be able to communicate exactly what I want to get across.

FWIW, Tom, I read your comment in this thread about the "all powerful stop sign" much as I think Tony read it.

And, my opinion for the record: SOmetimes it's needed; sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's properly used, sometimes it's not.

Also, it *looks* bad for an official to T a coach who is walking away. It might not *be* bad, though.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by OklahomaRef

Went to scout a game tonight. Saw two officials that have been calling a long time. One was very very arrogant. A coach questions a call, I don't mean flipping out, just questioning. The official gives him the stop sign 3 times. The coach turns to walk away, makes about three steps and official gives him a T. Coach didn't even know he got it. I think the whole situation could have been avoided if there wasn't a "stop" sign. They went to line up and shoot free throws before he knew he got it. All of this happened 2 minutes left in the first quarter. Guess it was a sign, game turned out to be a pretty fun battle.

Using the stop sign is not a bad thing if done properly.

Had he told the coach, "I've heard enough," and then went about his business, the ball would then have been in the coach's court. He then makes the decision whether he gets a T or not.

The mistakes were being arrogant, if he truly was, and warning the coach three times.

Fans and coaches are customers? Sorry but that's bull$hit. Officials are there to administer the game, not to bend over to the whims and desires of fans and coaches.

[mplagrow]

Good Lord, if fans and coaches are customers, does that mean we also have to believe the old adage that "the customer is always right?"

Customers pay for goods and services. I don't think the fans or coaches pay you.

[stmaryrams]

I've had coaches like this one in the scenario. Often times you get that last comment when the coach turns. And that's the one that earns the "T".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by stmaryrams

I've had coaches like this one in the scenario. Often times you get that last comment when the coach turns. And that's the one that earns the "T".

Exactly.....and fanboys in the stand don't hear the comment,but they'll label the official "arrogant" if he issues a righteous "T".

That's exactly why I'm so skeptical when I read these reports about the nasty old officials screwing somebody's team. There's always two sides to a story, and we're only getting one.

[Ignats75]

I laugh as soon as I hear the words "arrogant" about an official. The operative word in this scenario is three. The only mistake the official made was issuing three warnings. As soon as he got to two they became meaningless. He might as well have picked his nose for all the good it did him.

I always distrust a poster that comes on here and wants to throw an official under the bus for a call. That usually tells me two things.

1. The poster is not an official
2. Therefore the poster doesn't know WTF he's talking about.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Using the stop sign is not a bad thing if done properly.

Agree. And using it properly is treating it exactly the same as you would treat a verbal warning. You warn once, and then you have to back up your warning if it gets ignored. If you don't, there's no use warning in the first place. Using the stop sign three times was a mistake, as you said. Using it once isn't. And using a stop sign sureasheck doesn't make any official "arrogant" either.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by OklahomaRef

...The coach turns to walk away, makes about three steps and official gives him a T.

Last coach I T'd up had turned and walked away from me; and as he did so he turned his head back and told me to "shut up".

How do you know what the coach said to the official?