charge or not

[deecee]

wow 3rd row from the endline -- either the shooter was shaq charging into a freshman girl or we are getting a bit WOW -- but should the contact BE THAT severe I will call the foul and then proceed to call an ambulance -- and yes a layup is always a BAD decision by a shooter.

I only stated what I would do in this instance and I will not lose any sleep if someone says they will do the opposite. But I like that 3rd row knock back -- can I offer some what ifs as well -- what if the shooter never intened to shoot but just decleate the defender (POW!!!!) -- or what if a blue duck flies in and steals my partners whistle and blows out of his primary and calls this PC and I actually blow the whilstle and we have a blarge. Do i defer to the duck? strange? yes. bizarre? yes? -- 3rd row knockback during a BAD layup just as strange and bizarre IMO.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by deecee

wow 3rd row from the endline -- either the shooter was shaq charging into a freshman girl or we are getting a bit WOW -- but should the contact BE THAT severe I will call the fouland then proceed to call an ambulance -- and yes a layup is always a BAD decision by a shooter.

I get it. You don't call fouls because they actually are fouls. You only call fouls if you personally feel the severity of the contact actually warrants a foul call.

Soooooo......
1) if the defender gets knocked into the second row, would you call a foul?
2) if the defender gets knocked into the first row, would you call a foul?
3) if the defender gets knocked down but lands short of the stands, would you call a foul?
4) if the shooter gives the defender a double eye-poke like Moe used to do to Curley, is that a foul?

Yup speaking of "bizarre", I was just wondering how you apply that "severity of contact" philosophy of yours in game situations.....

[deecee]

so all contact is a foul jr? its a judgement call and in MY judgement this contact where players are flying into the first/second/third row is NOT going to happen.

4) only if the defender responds with a "yuck, yuck, yuck"

[Kostja]

Why is that question such a big deal, really? There is a philosophy (HS as I understood it) that a player control foul should be called regardless of the position of the defender ... So, if that's what the governing body in that league wants, go ahead and call it that way. But there are other philosophies in other leagues, and maybe it is worth to think about them for a moment. Just think about it and the ideas behind it, don't use it if your league wants you to do otherwise!

As crazyvoyager said, in FIBA's world the rules don't offer a semi circle or anything like it to protect the shooter. but the prevailing philosophy is that defense should be played in front of the basket, not underneath it or even behind the backboard. This is probably because we'd like to see more baskets scored instead of referees waving them off because of player control fouls ... By the way, a charging after the shot (ball left the hand) wouldn't be a player control foul over here, and the basket would count even though a foul has been called on the shooter. Is that really different in HS, that it is still a PC foul, when the ball has already left the shooters hand? Oh, and one more thing regarding this philosophy ... we mix some advantage/disadvantage into it as well. If the shooter charges into the defender, who is planted underneath the basket, and he misses the layup it must be called as a foul by the offensive player! Why? Because he knocks the defender out of the picture for the ensuing rebound situation, and that would be a clear disadvantage. What are your thoughts on this? And before you ask, yes I like it. If you apply that rule consistently it creates a nicely flowing game, with charging calls where needed and baskets where defense just tries to play for a charge without trying to defend the basket. An occasional late call because of a missed shot with a charge ... I love it

[BillyMac]

From Kostja: "There is a philosophy (HS as I understood it) that a player control foul should be called regardless of the position of the defender"

Kostja: You understand it wrong. The defender cannot be out of bounds. This rule change was made a few years ago. Of course this change goes along with all the other rules regarding legal guarding postion.

[Kostja]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

From Kostja: "There is a philosophy (HS as I understood it) that a player control foul should be called regardless of the position of the defender"

Kostja: You understand it wrong. The defender cannot be out of bounds. This rule change was made a few years ago. Of course this change goes along with all the other rules regarding legal guarding postion.

Thanks for the clarification. I never even thought about someone "playing defense" out of bounds To me this looks just as weird as playing defense behind the backboard oder underneath the basket