TO granted while ball in air during pass?

[dkmz17]

Team A has ball in the backcourt. A1 attempts long pass to A2 in the frontcourt, who is about half the length of the floor away. As the ball leaves A1's hand on the pass, Coach A asks for timeout, referee waits to see if A2 receives the ball before refusing the timeout when B1 intercepts. Was referee right or wrong. Oh, this is High School ball if it makes a difference.

[David B]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Team A has ball in the backcourt. A1 attempts long pass to A2 in the frontcourt, who is about half the length of the floor away. As the ball leaves A1's hand on the pass, Coach A asks for timeout, referee waits to see if A2 receives the ball before refusing the timeout when B1 intercepts. Was referee right or wrong. Oh, this is High School ball if it makes a difference.

In HS this is a very good call. The official by rule is to only grant the TO when the ball is in control of a player of the team - 5-8-3a.

Player control 4-12-1 is holding or dribbling the ball etc.,

Many times I know I'm making sure that the coach has actually asked for a TO before I call it and something else might happening that would prevent it.

Thanks
DAvid

[Junker]

Absolutely the right call. Personally I think granting the time out is at times the most difficult part of the job.

[mick]

Originally Posted by David B

In HS this is a very good call. The official by rule is to only grant the TO when the ball is in control of a player of the team - 5-8-3a.

Player control 4-12-1 is holding or dribbling the ball etc.,

Many times I know I'm making sure that the coach has actually asked for a TO before I call it and something else might happening that would prevent it.

Thanks
DAvid

Indeed, it is a very good call.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Junker

Absolutely the right call. Personally I think granting the time out is at times the most difficult part of the job.

I agree on both counts.......

[dkmz17]

In college,
Rule 4.13.2(b) states-- a team is in control when a live ball is being passed between teammates, and
Rule 5.11.1(a) states -- Time shall be out and the game clock and shot clock, if running, shall be stopped when
a. A player or head coach requests a timeout, such request being granted only when the player’s/coach’s team is in possession of the
ball.

Is this similar to the NFHS rule? If so, is there a difference being being "in possession" and "in control"?

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

In college,
Rule 4.13.2(b) states-- a team is in control when a live ball is being passed between teammates, and
Rule 5.11.1(a) states -- Time shall be out and the game clock and shot clock, if running, shall be stopped when
a. A player or head coach requests a timeout, such request being granted only when the player’s/coach’s team is in possession of the
ball.

Is this similar to the NFHS rule? If so, is there a difference being being "in possession" and "in control"?

There is a difference between team control and player control. In layman's terms, player control is established by a player catching & holding or dribbling the ball. Team control is established when a a player from one team initially gains player control, and continues until there is a try for goal, a player from the other team gains player control, or there is a foul or violation that causes the ball to become dead.

In NFHS, to grant a time out when the ball is live there must be player control by a player of the team requesting the timeout. When a ball is in the air being passed between teammates there is still team control, but no player control - so a time out may not be granted.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Junker

Personally I think granting the time out is at times the most difficult part of the job.

Agree completely...and coaches seem to not understand when a TO is not immediately granted. Especially in a loud gym with fans right there with coaches, many times I have to look to be certain the coach is asking, be certain it is his team who is in control, and then determine if there is player control before granting. This can be quick, or if the coach is at the other end of the court and there is lots of action I need to be watching on the court, can take a second or two.

Personally, I liked when it had to be a player...

[mick]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Agree completely...and coaches seem to not understand when a TO is not immediately granted. Especially in a loud gym with fans right there with coaches, many times I have to look to be certain the coach is asking, be certain it is his team who is in control, and then determine if there is player control before granting. This can be quick, or if the coach is at the other end of the court and there is lots of action I need to be watching on the court, can take a second or two.

Personally, I liked when it had to be a player...

While I am watching play [and being aware of player control], I may only hear a request for time.
If I must turn to verify the request, that's good enough for me, because I had actually recognized a legitimate request while I was seeing player control and I disregard any subsequent loss of player control [and I disregard the fact that any time was consumed].

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by mick

While I am watching play [and being aware of player control], I may only hear a request for time.
If I must turn to verify the request, that's good enough for me, because I had actually recognized a legitimate request while I was seeing player control and I disregard any subsequent loss of player control [and I disregard the fact that any time was consumed].

Good advice...I guess I never thought of it that way. I'd be interested in how others handle this situation???

[mplagrow]

Had one today where coach was getting nervous as A1 struggled to get the ball in. A split second after A1 released, coach yells, "TIME OUT!" I waited until A2 caught the ball and granted the time out. Funny, he didn't want it anymore! Coaches are so fickle.

[SMEngmann]

Originally Posted by mick

While I am watching play [and being aware of player control], I may only hear a request for time.
If I must turn to verify the request, that's good enough for me, because I had actually recognized a legitimate request while I was seeing player control and I disregard any subsequent loss of player control [and I disregard the fact that any time was consumed].

This is why it's so difficult to officiate the timeout called by the coach. If there's a turnover or a clear loss of control before the whistle, you're gonna have a situation.

[mplagrow]

Maybe it would simplify things if from now on, all time out requests were submitted in writing. I'll start working on a form. . .

[Junker]

Early this year I had a good 4A girl's matchup. In the second half, I had some light pressure and a little 2 on 2 bringing the ball up the court as T. The gym was loud as hell. I hear "time out" from the home bench. By the time I can look at the bench, the head coach is just standing there, doing nothing. I pull out my whistle and ask if he wants a TO. He does nothing. I ask again, and just as he starts to confirm that he did indeed want the TO, the ball is stripped and we go the other way for a lay up. Next possession he did get his time out. I tried to explain what happened, but he was being a jerk about it so I walked away. I was with 2 of the best officials in our area (if not the state) that night and somehow I was rotated away from him for most of the game.

[Four-Oh]

Originally Posted by mplagrow

Maybe it would simplify things if from now on, all time out requests were submitted in writing. I'll start working on a form. . .

Here in Ontario (for club basketball, not HS), they went one better... they switched from Fed to FIBA rules this season: no more time-outs when the ball is live! It took some getting used to, having players or coaches call time out to get themselves out of trouble on the court and remembering to refuse the request!
Andrew