Referee with "rabbit ears"

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

If you have a rules question, then ask it. If you want to whine about a ref, do it someplace else. This is not the forum to whine.

Why are we so quick to jump on new posters in the forum lately? I'm truly baffled.

As JRut has very correctly pointed out in another recent thread, there's a whole lot more to officiating than the rules. If (and that's a big if, since we only have one side of the story) this official behaved the way it is described, what should be done about it? That's a legitimate question. There's no reason to lash out at this person.

My own suggestion would be to contact the official's association (since you may have past relationships there), rather than the schools themselves. Or if you feel really strongly, I guess you could do both. But by contacting the association, you might get the official some training. Maybe. Maybe not.

Realistically, your complaint will have no effect. As some others have indicated, your comments will probably not influence the AD and the official himself will probably dismiss you as a know-nothing. Additionally, the official's assignor may already know about his problems, but uses him anyway just because he needs to bodies out on the floor to cover games.

Your best bet is to simply forget it as a bad experience, and take comfort in the fact that the official will never get to a varsity game without some additional improvement.

[Ignats75]

Philosophically, I have a real problem with anyone that was in the crowd having any input into the rating or disciplining an official. Thats a mighty big Camel with a mighty big nose, to let into our tent. Its way worse than the coaches who vote for referees for tourney games.

I gotta agree with my dinosaur friend. You are coming across as a typical fan who has an axe to grind just because you didn't like the outcome of a game. Unfair? Maybe. But allowing fans to have some sort of authority over officials is scary. If you think referees are substandard, grab a whistle and improve the referee pool in your area. OTherwise, sit down, watch the game and STFU!

Uh-OH. F U February may have just kicked in for me.

[dkmz17]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Philosophically, I have a real problem with anyone that was in the crowd having any input into the rating or disciplining an official. Thats a mighty big Camel with a mighty big nose, to let into our tent. Its way worse than the coaches who vote for referees for tourney games.

I gotta agree with my dinosaur friend. You are coming across as a typical fan who has an axe to grind just because you didn't like the outcome of a game. Unfair? Maybe. But allowing fans to have some sort of authority over officials is scary. If you think referees are substandard, grab a whistle and improve the referee pool in your area. OTherwise, sit down, watch the game and STFU!

Uh-OH. F U February may have just kicked in for me.

As said earlier, I have done that in the past. If I do it again, does that mean I have the right to complain, but not until then? Ok, I am done with this issue now, sorry, I will confine my posts from now on to strict rules questions.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Why are we so quick to jump on new posters in the forum lately? I'm truly baffled.

Unless they are only coaching Freshman basketball, then it's alright.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Unless they are only coaching Freshman basketball, then it's alright.

Honestly I would say the same thing. All games should be kept in perspective. Anything below the varsity level should be purely fun for all participants. It is not to judge everyone on some unattainable level because some fan was upset who never has officiated a "real game" in his life.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Honestly I would say the same thing. All games should be kept in perspective. Anything below the varsity level should be purely fun for all participants. It is not to judge everyone on some unattainable level because some fan was upset who never has officiated a "real game" in his life.

Peace

Actually I say the same thing. My objection is when someone describes a scenario and someone else responds that they shouldn't worry about it b/c it's only XYZ level of basketball.

If a person comes here in here with a legitimate question about rules application he shouldn't be criticized for asking the question just b/c he's only coaching Freshman basketball.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Actually I say the same thing. My objection is when someone describes a scenario and someone else responds that they shouldn't worry about it b/c it's only XYZ level of basketball.

If a person comes here in here with a legitimate question about rules application he shouldn't be criticized for asking the question just b/c he's only coaching Freshman basketball.

The person did not have a legitimate question about any rule or application that was not answered. Also this was not a coach, it was a fan. Also it is very debatable if the official actually did anything wrong based on the actions of the OP. Talking to a fan is not in itself a violation of any written code of conduct that the NF puts out and not of any that I have ever read anywhere. I had a fan ask me a question a couple of weeks ago and I was standing right next to them. They asked what I perceived to be a very legitimate question and the conversation was very cordial. We are after all human beings.

But if this was a Freshman coach and they were asking something like this in a HS game, the response would be similar. The actions of the coach were worse if you ask me and we have the right to point that out. Now if those cannot stand this, then take that conversation to a coaching site and complain there. I know I do not go to coaching sites and complain about coaching decisions. If I did I would expect a similar response if I told coaches they have no idea what they are doing.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If a person comes here in here with a legitimate question about rules application he shouldn't be criticized for asking the question just b/c he's only coaching Freshman basketball.

You are correct...but on the other hand, if a person comes on this board and says (paraphrasing here) "Hey, this ref I had screwed up and I'm mad about it so what can I do? Oh, and by the way I was an azz earlier, but that doesn't really matter." then you can probably expect them to get jumped on some...and in the jumping, the fact that he/she is in reality only coaching freshman ball will probably be pointed out to them. Same way that coming on the board and complaining that a ref was unprofessional after being screamed at by some fan and called a moron by a freaking middle school assistant coach (what the hell is a middle school assistant coach anyway??) will probably get you blasted too...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If a person comes here in here with a legitimate question about rules application he shouldn't be criticized for asking the question just b/c he's only coaching Freshman basketball.

I agree.

However, if you have a fanboy that comes in here and wants to have an official removed from all the middle school games in all the schools in his area because he didn't like the way that official handled a situation where an assistant coach coach called him a "moron", then I really don't see how what you said above can apply in any way to that situation. And I also can't understand how you could possibly try to apply the same logic to a high school freshman coach that admits that he will deliberately crap on an official for absolutely no reason other than the fact that wants to fire his kids up. These goobers just get the answers that they deserve imo.

[dave30]

I wish I had one dollar for every fan that said "I used to be a referee!" I always ask, "what chapter?"........they fumble around with that one most of the time!

JRutledge, I have to disagree with you a little bit. I know there are some young, inexperienced, refs in middle school ball, but there are some good ones as well. I know plenty of guys who work a varsity schedule, a couple who do some college ball, who still work some middle school games on occasion. Some people really like the kids. I do for the most part, although my middle school games are now few and far between. I still like to do elementary kid's games too. Also, there are plenty of guys and gals who work nights and can only do earlier games such as middle school or Freshman or JV even though they referee at a high level.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by dave30

I wish I had one dollar for every fan that said "I used to be a referee!" I always ask, "what chapter?"........they fumble around with that one most of the time!

JRutledge, I have to disagree with you a little bit. I know there are some young, inexperienced, refs in middle school ball, but there are some good ones as well. I know plenty of guys who work a varsity schedule, a couple who do some college ball, who still work some middle school games on occasion. Some people really like the kids. I do for the most part, although my middle school games are now few and far between. I still like to do elementary kid's games too. Also, there are plenty of guys and gals who work nights and can only do earlier games such as middle school or Freshman or JV even though they referee at a high level.

You need to take things in context. I did not say there were absolutely no officials of any experience or other levels that work any lower level. If you can find the quotes, show them to me. Because I did not say no one of any experience level works them. I have said in this post and many others that most often you have the most inexperienced officials to the guys who will never get past this love working them. If you have not noticed, often when someone comes here with a story about how an official screwed up a rule or acted in an unprofessional way, these levels are often highlighted.

I did not ask you for personal anecdotes of what you and a couple of people you know might do every once in a while. I have worked freshman, JV and sophomore games this season as well. I have a JV game on Monday. Three times I worked with guys that were veterans that had more experience than me and worked post-season games in the past. One of those times we were called at the last minute to fill a date and we both happened to be open. I am not sure what you are disagreeing with.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And I also can't understand how you could possibly try to apply the same logic to a high school freshman coach that admits that he will deliberately crap on an official for absolutely no reason other than the fact that wants to fire his kids up. These goobers just get the answers that they deserve imo.

Guess this is where we disagree. I don't view it is as crapping on an official for a coach to deliberately get an unsporting technical. To me it's just a coach being a coach. Some are nice, some are a$$-hole by nature, some are a$$-holes by design, some are a$$-holes at selective moments, and some turn to being an a$$-hole when the pressure becomes too much to bear. No different than all the personalities I have to deal with in the military since I was 18 years old.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Guess this is where we disagree. I don't view it is as crapping on an official for a coach to deliberately get an unsporting technical.

Yup, we sureasheck do disagree on that one. Big time.

That goober admitted that he deliberately told an official that he was terrible with the sole purpose being to motivate his kids. Whether the official was actually terrible or not had no bearing in any way on the coach's actions. And this is coming from a freshman high school coach too. Well, if you think that it's perfectly OK for a coach to deliberately disparage an official like that, and that's acceptable behavior on the coach's part also, then I think that you should take up coaching too, News.

If you think that basically telling an official that he sucks isn't crapping on that official, what exactly would you call it?