Question about bringing the elbow around

[181174]

Had this happen in a game I was working on Saturday. Late in the 4th quarter the offensive player caught the ball out by the 3 point line, defender came out, bumped him kind of got under him, I called the foul, started to go over to report the foul, would be shooting 1 and 1, the offensive player turns his elbow toward the defensive player, he stops before making any contact and defensive player backs away so no confrontation or anything, I warn the offensive player to watch the elbow, I told him the play was over the foul was called, should I have done anything else? should I have had a technical foul here for the elbow without any contact? just wondering on how to handle this situation the next time, since it was a dead ball if there was contact I know I would have had a technical foul and then I would have had to decide if it was flagrant or not. Since there was no contact how does this get handled?

[blindzebra]

It depends on what had happened the rest of the game leading up to that point...had there been previous rough play, aggressive acts, or unsporting behavior from these players?

One could argue that the elbow in this situation is the same as a punch, the attempt to strike is the same as striking when it comes to fighting.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by 181174

Had this happen in a game I was working on Saturday. Late in the 4th quarter the offensive player caught the ball out by the 3 point line, defender came out, bumped him kind of got under him, I called the foul, started to go over to report the foul, would be shooting 1 and 1, the offensive player turns his elbow toward the defensive player, he stops before making any contact and defensive player backs away so no confrontation or anything, I warn the offensive player to watch the elbow, I told him the play was over the foul was called, should I have done anything else? should I have had a technical foul here for the elbow without any contact? just wondering on how to handle this situation the next time, since it was a dead ball if there was contact I know I would have had a technical foul and then I would have had to decide if it was flagrant or not. Since there was no contact how does this get handled?

If I thought there was any intentionality in it at all, I think I'd have called a T. I can't see that this could be anything other than a taunt or a threat, even though it's non-verbal.

[Ray_from_Mi]

Fielder's choice. The raised elbow is certainly confrontational, the very least, taunting. Did it happen in the low post or out where many could see the action? You could have issued a 'T' and gotten support for it. If there was nothing after that moment for the rest of the game, then you dodged the bullet. If something were to happen with that player and another, you can bet the opposing coach would have asked why you didn't pull the trigger on this guy when you should have. Maybe somewhere in-between, take him over to the coach and encourage the coach to have a moment with the player about the ethics of sportsmanship. Coach, I need a sub now. then everyone sees you have attempted to solve the problem w/o having to go to 'level 5' to do it.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

If I thought there was any intentionality in it at all, I think I'd have called a T. I can't see that this could be anything other than a taunt or a threat, even though it's non-verbal.

Oh, Mr Annoying Grammar Guy!!!

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by Ray_from_Mi

Maybe somewhere in-between, take him over to the coach and encourage the coach to have a moment with the player about the ethics of sportsmanship.

Talk about the blind leading the blind.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

If I thought there was any intentionality in it at all, I think I'd have called a T. I can't see that this could be anything other than a taunt or a threat, even though it's non-verbal.

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Oh, Mr Annoying Grammar Guy!!!

What do you think is wrong here?

[26 Year Gap]

I have never heard of the word "Intentionality". Intent, yes. Intention, yes. Intentional, yes. But then, I often end up finishing sentences with prepositions.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

I have never heard of the word "Intentionality". Intent, yes. Intention, yes. Intentional, yes. But then, I often end up finishing sentences with prepositions.

Don't you mean that it's prepositions that your sentences end in?

[26 Year Gap]

Well, now that you bring it up.

[umpire99]

I would T him up for the elbow. Then I would watch closely for any reaction from him so that I could T him up again and be finished with him for the night. I would also hold up the stop sign to the coach if he had any quesiton about it. I would then hope that the assistant coach had something to say so that I could ring him up as well.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

I have never heard of the word "Intentionality". Intent, yes. Intention, yes. Intentional, yes. But then, I often end up finishing sentences with prepositions.

Yea, I see. Well, I didn't want to use "intent" because that implies that the player fully intended to make contact, and I wanted to indicate a less violent thought process. I also didn't use "intention" or "intentional" because of the vocabulary confusion that might result. "Intentionality" means, in this context, that the player was swinging the elbow as a deliberate act, even if there was no "intent" to make contact.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Yea, I see. Well, I didn't want to use "intent" because that implies that the player fully intended to make contact, and I wanted to indicate a less violent thought process. I also didn't use "intention" or "intentional" because of the vocabulary confusion that might result. "Intentionality" means, in this context, that the player was swinging the elbow as a deliberate act, even if there was no "intent" to make contact.

errr....now I have no idea what you're talking about.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

errr....now I have no idea what you're talking about.

That's because her intentionality was to confusiate you.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

That's because her intentionality was to confusiate you.

That's certaintentially true.