Your opinions please

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by hawk65

I am new to this site and this is my first post. I have been officiating sub-varsity basketball for just a few years and I’ve been visiting this site to learn from the experiences and opinions of others. Thanks to all of you for taking the time to share.

An incident happened recently that I witnessed and I’m seeking your thoughts. As with all events, there are numerous side issues but I want to distill this and limit the discussion to some central questions.

A local high school has a successful basketball program with a well-known coach [Coach]. A few days ago, I attended their home game. Before the game, I had exchanged greetings with the two varsity officials [A and B], and they invited me to their locker room at halftime. By halftime, Coach’s team was soundly beating the opponent. I watched from high in the bleachers and didn’t notice any controversial official’s calls.

As invited, I went to the officials’ room at halftime. As I passed through the locker area and went around a corner to wait in front of the officials’ dressing room, Coach was screaming about someone with no restraint about his volume or his profanities. A moment later, the officials entered the area and I realized Coach had been waiting there to confront A. He verbally attacked A -- screamed at him, used several profanities, screamed about several calls/no-calls, screamed that he should go back to where he came from (A just rejoined our association after being out of area for several years), etc., etc. Any attempts by A to respond were interrupted by more screaming. As mentioned, I was just around a corner and did not see this -- I only heard this portion of the tirade. This continued for perhaps a minute or so, then they all came around the corner so the coach could unlock the officials’ locker room. At that point I both heard and saw as the shouting continued (it never abated) as Coach unlocked the door and I followed A and B into the officials’ room. I do not recall at any time during the verbal attack hearing B attempt to mitigate the confrontation or intercede on A’s behalf.

After the door was closed, A shared that he had been warned by “about twenty” other officials that Coach would test him. He reviewed the plays that had apparently upset Coach but felt comfortable with his calls and his officiating. He quoted a couple of the coach’s comments during the first half, including some profanities from the coaching box.

B stated that he was on Coach’s approved list of officials and he therefore gets a “pass” from Coach. He told A he had two choices -- he (A) could issue a technical foul or he could let it go. If he (A) issued the technical, he (B) would support him. No technical was issued at the start of the second half.

A told the association assigner and at least one other association board member about this incident. They are aware that I witnessed it.

Based on your experiences and the practices of your association, what do you think the following should have done differently or should do now?

A:
B:
Me:
The officials association:

Thank you very much for taking the time to share your opinions.

A: Simple answer, the head coach is ejected. This is a no brainer. Yes, I have to do paperwork, but that kind of behavior is not tolerated anytime.
B: Grow a backbone.
You: Bet ready to give your version of the story
Association: Back up your officials.

[Raymond]

A: "Coach, open the g** d@mn door and get the f**k out of my face"

[bigdogrunnin]

Me (to Coach): "Thank you for your input coach. Now, I need you to go talk to your team and get them ready for the second half, and please prepare your assistant to coach them. You won't be returning for the second half. Thank you Coach. Have a good night."

Start the second half with 4 Free Throws by the visiting team, and the visiting team gets the ball at the division line. Oh, and make sure that the technical fouls are correctly annotated in the official book.

[deecee]

yup easy ejection -- who cares if I DONT work at said school -- this goes back to my rant in another thread -- grow some @#$@# dignity and pride and self-respect. In this instance if the coach had me cornered and I tried to get away and he kept cornering me he might find himself on the floor along with an ejection.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

yup easy ejection -- who cares if I DONT work at said school -- this goes back to my rant in another thread -- grow some @#$@# dignity and pride and self-respect. In this instance if the coach had me cornered and I tried to get away and he kept cornering me he might find himself on the floor along with an ejection.

What in the world does dignity, pride and self-respect have to do with this thread (as it relates to the officials)?

Peace

[deecee]

Official A and B showed lack of dignity to stand up for themselves -- lack of pride in what they do in thier failure to punish said coach and no self-respect for taking such verbal abuse -- I could be wrong but what the OP described sounded like a lack of all 3 to me.

[mick]

Originally Posted by deecee

Official A and B showed lack of dignity to stand up for themselves -- lack of pride in what they do in thier failure to punish said coach and no self-respect for taking such verbal abuse -- I could be wrong but what the OP described sounded like a lack of all 3 to me.

I think the officials held onto their dignity and maintained their professionalism by not showing indignation.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

Official A and B showed lack of dignity to stand up for themselves -- lack of pride in what they do in thier failure to punish said coach and no self-respect for taking such verbal abuse -- I could be wrong but what the OP described sounded like a lack of all 3 to me.

I realize that the first emotion for many is to go off on the coach and curse him out. That would have likely done nothing but give the coach ammo to behave worse than he already has and to blame you for the confrontation.

I have had a similar situation happen to me after a game and I told the coach that he need to leave right now because we are not discussing what happen in the game. I did not realize when I first read this that the game was still going on, but I think the officials handled themselves wonderfully considering the fact the game was not over. He would have likely been T'd if not ejected from the game. We might have had to talk about it in the locker room.

But to say they showed a lack of dignity to not lower themselves to the level of the coach is absurd to me.

Peace

[REFVA]

In addition to technical fouls coming out in the second half. I will call my association breif them on what happened and what my next actions are and if in any way there were personal threaths I would call the authorities to make sure to file a harrassment report.
That is truly harrassment. The FAns, Coaches, players feel that once you wear the stripes of black and white it gives them the ability to physically and verbally abuse us. I am at zero tolerance.

[canuckref]

A few things trouble me about this scenario.
1. The coach has an "approved" list of refs. The assignor should be the only one to approve refs. Letting a coach approve refs is like the fox guarding the henhouse.
2. Profanity is an automatic unsportsmanlike technical foul (unless you mutter "sh*t" after missing a hoop...) Directed at an official there is no reason not to call a technical.
3. The home coach has the key to the officials room. At a minimum I would change this to the home coach gives you the key pre-game. Giving a hothead a key to your sanctuary is not wise.
4. How can that official work the remainder of the game and not be biased after enduring continued verbal abuse? He is either afraid of losing assignments, afraid of the coach, a professional victim/punching bag. A senior official told me a long time ago: when you let a coach get into your head during a game...your toast...you are know thinking about what his reactions will be, will he be pleased, is he/she second guessing my calls etc...
Overall this sounds like a situation that needs some serious reconsideration. I would speak again with your assignor and co officials. Use this example as a case study to work on.
Thanks for bringing it up...it raises many good questions.

My first post!

[deecee]

welcome canuckref -- shall we start the bidding on how soon he figures out OS's schtick at $2 in 48 hours?

OS im just teasing you -- i love you man

I said the above about OS before I read his post in the thread about a T before the game...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by canuckref

1. The coach has an "approved" list of refs. The assignor should be the only one to approve refs. Letting a coach approve refs is like the fox guarding the henhouse.

In the real world, there are several states that operate like this. And.....it's kinda funny that about 90% of the stories posted here similar to this one about officials refusing to take care of bidness seem to come from the states that use this type of procedure. Sad but true.

Welcome to the forum.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

A: "Coach, open the g** d@mn door and get the f**k out of my face"

Of course I was joking above. But seriously, hopefully the coach would not have a had a chance to earn a T with me. The first words out of his mouth I would have interupted him and said "Coach, you need to let us in the room and leave us be. We will not engage you in any conversation at this time."