Blarge--does it exist?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by iref4him

1) NO I am not saying that it doesn't exist.

2) I'm not saying it can't happen, I've seen it.

1) Well, I'd check that out if I were you because someone must be using your computer. Someone calling themself iref4him posted the following yesterday at 6:36pm--"There is no blarge!".

2) You also said in your own words verbatim in that post....
-"I said that if we have a blarge, then it will be either a block or charge."
- "I said that we are going to have a block or a charge, not a blarge."

I was just pointing out that you are saying, as per your statements above, that you would not follow the procedures laid out in case book play 4.19.8SitC and call the double foul. Iow, you would simply ignore the NFHS ruling. Is that correct?

Just making sure that everyone understands where you're coming from in this discussion.....

[RookieDude]

Late...

I agree with Rich, MTD Sr., Joeadvantage, and whom(who)ever else pregames that if a blarge happens...get together and decide one or the other.

Beat me, whip me, shoot me...with apologies to the rule book purists...but, lets just say I don't understand this case book play...therefore, I must enforce this situation just as my crew and I pregamed.

Oh yeah...we pregame other situations too...such as, advantage/disadvantage, 3 seconds in the key, coaches boxes, assistants off the bench when they are not suppose to be, profanity by a player (under his breath), etc. Maybe not every pregame...but, get the point.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Late...

I agree with Rich, MTD Sr., Joeadvantage, and whom(who)ever else pregames that if a blarge happens...get together and decide one or the other.

Beat me, whip me, shoot me...with apologies to the rule book purists...but, lets just say I don't understand this case book play...therefore, I must enforce this situation just as my crew and I pregamed.

And when Coach ###*(*(* comes to you and says "I thought per the rulebook if 2 officials display conflicting foul calls in this situation then the officials are supposed to issue a double foul?" (remember, I'm playing the role of a coach, thus improper terms in my question )

What is your answer to said coach?

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And when Coach ###*(*(* comes to you and says "I thought per the rulebook if 2 officials display conflicting foul calls in this situation then the officials are supposed to issue a double foul?" (remember, I'm playing the role of a coach, thus improper terms in my question )

What is your answer to said coach?

"Really, Coach...I think the rulebook also says something about Coach's not stepping out of their boxes too."

or (if the Coach is actually standing squarely in his box)

"Coach, we pregame this kinda stuff...one official had it one way, and the other offical had it the other way...we got together and determined who had the best look."

If the Coach continues...then, "Coach, we'd do the same for you if it was the other way." Then move on...

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

"Really, Coach...I think the rulebook also says something about Coach's not stepping out of their boxes too."

or (if the Coach is actually standing squarely in his box)

"Coach, we pregame this kinda stuff...one official had it one way, and the other offical had it the other way...we got together and determined who had the best look."

If the Coach continues...then, "Coach, we'd do the same for you if it was the other way." Then move on...

I'll just put it this way, NFHS rule is the same as the NCAA Mens' rule, and the NCAA Mens officials enforce the rule as written.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'll just put it this way, NFHS rule is the same as the NCAA Mens' rule, and the NCAA Mens officials enforce the rule as written.

I'll just put it this way, are you sure you can speak for ALL the NCAA Mens officials?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

I'll just put it this way, are you sure you can speak for ALL the NCAA Mens officials?

I can speak of seeing it happen on televised games. There was a thread about it the first week of the NCAA season. If it's good enough for them to follow the rules in this situation, it's good enough for me.

And anytime the subject has come in camp....nevermind.

Point is, it's in the rulebook. Plenty of coaches know it's in the rulebook. I want someone to illustrate the conversation they are going to have with a knowlegeable coach as to why the crew has decided to eschew a rule.

And tomorrow night, when I'm the crew chief, we'll pre-game the NFHS way. No one I have ever worked with has ever pre-gamed it differently.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

I'll just put it this way, are you sure you can speak for ALL the NCAA Mens officials?

All I can go by is conversations that I've had and blarges that I've seen handled in NCAA tv games(including a few this year), but I've never seen it handled any other way except by the procedure laid out in the rules. Iirc, there was a blarge in a recent Final Four or Eight game, and they went the double foul route. I just can't imagine them doing anything otherwise in a high profile game like that, after both officials had come out with conflicting signals.

Obviously, you have seen NCAA MENS officials handle it differently. What conference was it in?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

"Really, Coach...I think the rulebook also says something about Coach's not stepping out of their boxes too."

or (if the Coach is actually standing squarely in his box)

"Coach, we pregame this kinda stuff...one official had it one way, and the other offical had it the other way...we got together and determined who had the best look."

If the Coach continues...then, "Coach, we'd do the same for you if it was the other way." Then move on...

And what do you do if your assignor or your evaluator asks you why you didn't follow the rules? Are you gonna try and lay the same...uh...stuff on them? Or is it an accepted procedure in your area not to follow the directions laid out in the rules?

Just wondering....

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And what do you do if your assignor or your evaluator asks you why you didn't follow the rules? Are you gonna try anf lay the same...uh...stuff on them? Or is it an accepted procedure in your area not to follow the directions laid out in the rules?

Just wondering....

Yes......sir.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Yes......sir.

OK....fine.

[RookieDude]

JR...I'm going to start typing this post before I even wait for a response from you for my last post. (Because I know you won't let that sleeping dog lay)

You keep quoting Case book play 4.19.8(C)

For the record...here it is.

4.19.8 SITUATION C: A1 drives for a try and jumps and releases the ball. Contact occurs between A1 and B1 after the release and before airborne shooter A1 returns to the floor. One official calls a blocking foul on B1 and the other official calls a charging foul on A1. The try is successful.
RULING: Even though airborne shooter A1 committed a charging foul, it is not a player-control foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul. The double foul does not cause the ball to become dead on the try and the goal is scored. Play is resumed at the point of interruption, which is a throw-in for Team B from anywhere along the end line. (4-36)

As one poster said earlier...just because a signal is made, does that make it a call. If the "signal" was never reported...then does that mean it never happened, and thus was not an actual call? (you know...sort of like the tree in the forest)

Your case play states two calls are made. Therefore, I am assuming both officials could not get together and decide which call to make. Soooo, in this case...you are correct...score the basket.

I am simply saying...that in my games...we will get together and come up with ONE call, not TWo...as stated in your case play.

If I am reading this case play wrong...then I guess I will miss this inteurpt...but, at least I will be consistent with what my fellow officials do in this area.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

"Really, Coach...I think the rulebook also says something about Coach's not stepping out of their boxes too."

or (if the Coach is actually standing squarely in his box)

Classy...threaten a coach with a T when he calls you on your made up rule.

Originally Posted by RookieDude

"Coach, we pregame this kinda stuff...one official had it one way, and the other offical had it the other way...we got together and determined who had the best look."

I could pregame that we'll call a foul on B4 everytime he pivots left too...Or call a T on any player that hits the backboard in the process of blocking a shot....or call GT anytime a shot is blocked after it hits the backboard. That doesn't make it right.

Originally Posted by RookieDude

If the Coach continues...then, "Coach, we'd do the same for you if it was the other way." Then move on...

Interesting discussion. I do girls in NY (NCAAW rules, NFHS for boys). Why? Don't know.
According to the NYSGBOA on a double whistle foul (2-man), the call goes to the person whose primary area of responsibility the play is in.
Sometimes hard to do when it also states that both officials are on ball when the ball is in the paint.
As far as the block/charge it states "When in doubt it is a charge. Don't penalize good defense!!"