Blarge--does it exist?

[deecee]

fine i wont call you or anyone else here a blarge ever again

[iref4him]

There is no blarge. But we do it to ourselves as officials. Last week, I had a boys varsity game. I was the U1. The R for the pre-game talked about the blarge. He said if we have it, we will sell it and call it as a blarge. I said that if we have a blarge then it will either be a block or a charge. He said he had it in a game the other day. He said both coaches were mad, but that is just the way it is.

I said we are going to have a block or charge not a blarge. Guess what in the game we had this game situation. The ball was in my primary as C, I called the charge against the Visiting team. The T was going to call a block. I took the call. IT WAS CLEARLY A CHARGE. The visiting coach begged for a block and proceeded to say it was a "blarge". I told him not to go there. I saw the play and it was clearly a charge.

At half time the offical who was at the T wanted to know why we didn't call a blarge. I re-iterated that there is no blarge. I told him if the ball was in his primary I would have backed off and let him call the block. BUT REMAIN IN PRIMARY UNLESS YOU ARE 200% SURE YOUR PARTNER KICKED IT!!!

He said that he had been taught that a blarge was okay. I told him it was a bail out call. The R said that I should never say that. Sometimes you can't avoid the blarge. Then I told him that is why pre-game is so important!!!

These blarges and other things (e.g., coach's box, calling the travel before A1 creams B2 after A1 gains control of the ball and turns and hits B2) we call or don't call, we bring upon ourselves. When you have the officials calling it correctly, you look like the odd ball.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by iref4him

There is no blarge.

Are you saying that case book play 4.19.8SitC doesn't exist? Or that it should never be followed? Even if both officials have already made conflicting signals?

Please explain what you're getting at. I'm not quite sure.

[iref4him]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Are you saying that case book play 4.19.8SitC doesn't exist? Or that it should never be followed? Even if both officials have already made conflicting signals?

Please explain what you're getting at. I'm not quite sure.

NO I am not saying that it doesn't exist. What I am getting at is that if we have 4 eyes on the ball in the block/charge, then we don't trust our partner. The other thing is what is happening wiht the other players. We talk about primaries and trusting our partner, etc. I'm not saying it can't happen, I've seen it. Even though it is in the case book, what about the mechanics and officials manual - primaries, Who the play is coming to, etc.

A blarge is a bail out for crews who won't stick to the mechanics, IMO!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by iref4him

NO I am not saying that it doesn't exist. What I am getting at is that if we have 4 eyes on the ball in the block/charge, then we don't trust our partner. The other thing is what is happening wiht the other players. We talk about primaries and trusting our partner, etc. I'm not saying it can't happen, I've seen it. Even though it is in the case book, what about the mechanics and officials manual - primaries, Who the play is coming to, etc.

C'mon, not this tired argument.

The blarge is most likely to happen in cases where 4 eyes *should* be on the dribbler. If A1 is driving into the lane against a sea of defenders from the top of the key I'm not worried about who's watching "the other players". In this case we might even have 6 eyes "on the ball", at least until the shot goes up or he kicks it out.

I agree it's a break down in mechanics, but the breakdown is not because of where the officials were looking.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by iref4him

NO I am not saying that it doesn't exist. What I am getting at is that if we have 4 eyes on the ball in the block/charge, then we don't trust our partner. The other thing is what is happening wiht the other players. We talk about primaries and trusting our partner, etc. I'm not saying it can't happen, I've seen it. Even though it is in the case book, what about the mechanics and officials manual - primaries, Who the play is coming to, etc.

A blarge is a bail out for crews who won't stick to the mechanics, IMO!

That's right, because there are no dual coverage areas. There will never be a time when both officials could legitimately have their eyes on the ball. That's right, no matter where the ball is, it is never okay to have two officials see the same play and blow their whistle right away.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

That's right, because there are no dual coverage areas. There will never be a time when both officials could legitimately have their eyes on the ball. That's right, no matter where the ball is, it is never okay to have two officials see the same play and blow their whistle right away.

Snaqwells, you are absolutely correct....what would happen if say, you and I were working a game, and I had a foul, but I didn't get the shooter....and you were looking there and helped me out with that ....we would have anarchy....why would I ever want you to help me out there...why why why LOL....

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

That's right, because there are no dual coverage areas. There will never be a time when both officials could legitimately have their eyes on the ball. That's right, no matter where the ball is, it is never okay to have two officials see the same play and blow their whistle right away.

You mean a player can't have one foot below the FT line and one foot above? Or one foot in the lane on the trail's side and one foot out? Guess we have quantum players now! They can be on either side of a line but not on the line???

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You mean a player can't have one foot below the FT line and one foot above? Or one foot in the lane on the trail's side and one foot out? Guess we have quantum players now! They can be on either side of a line but not on the line???

Did you miss the sarcasm or are you extending it?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by iref4him

1) NO I am not saying that it doesn't exist.

2) I'm not saying it can't happen, I've seen it.

1) Well, I'd check that out if I were you because someone must be using your computer. Someone calling themself iref4him posted the following yesterday at 6:36pm--"There is no blarge!".

2) You also said in your own words verbatim in that post....
-"I said that if we have a blarge, then it will be either a block or charge."
- "I said that we are going to have a block or a charge, not a blarge."

I was just pointing out that you are saying, as per your statements above, that you would not follow the procedures laid out in case book play 4.19.8SitC and call the double foul. Iow, you would simply ignore the NFHS ruling. Is that correct?

Just making sure that everyone understands where you're coming from in this discussion.....

[RookieDude]

Late...

I agree with Rich, MTD Sr., Joeadvantage, and whom(who)ever else pregames that if a blarge happens...get together and decide one or the other.

Beat me, whip me, shoot me...with apologies to the rule book purists...but, lets just say I don't understand this case book play...therefore, I must enforce this situation just as my crew and I pregamed.

Oh yeah...we pregame other situations too...such as, advantage/disadvantage, 3 seconds in the key, coaches boxes, assistants off the bench when they are not suppose to be, profanity by a player (under his breath), etc. Maybe not every pregame...but, get the point.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Late...

I agree with Rich, MTD Sr., Joeadvantage, and whom(who)ever else pregames that if a blarge happens...get together and decide one or the other.

Beat me, whip me, shoot me...with apologies to the rule book purists...but, lets just say I don't understand this case book play...therefore, I must enforce this situation just as my crew and I pregamed.

And when Coach ###*(*(* comes to you and says "I thought per the rulebook if 2 officials display conflicting foul calls in this situation then the officials are supposed to issue a double foul?" (remember, I'm playing the role of a coach, thus improper terms in my question )

What is your answer to said coach?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by iref4him

There is no blarge. But we do it to ourselves as officials. Last week, I had a boys varsity game. I was the U1. The R for the pre-game talked about the blarge. He said if we have it, we will sell it and call it as a blarge. I said that if we have a blarge then it will either be a block or a charge. He said he had it in a game the other day. He said both coaches were mad, but that is just the way it is.

I said we are going to have a block or charge not a blarge. Guess what in the game we had this game situation. The ball was in my primary as C, I called the charge against the Visiting team. The T was going to call a block. I took the call. IT WAS CLEARLY A CHARGE. The visiting coach begged for a block and proceeded to say it was a "blarge". I told him not to go there. I saw the play and it was clearly a charge.

At half time the offical who was at the T wanted to know why we didn't call a blarge. I re-iterated that there is no blarge. I told him if the ball was in his primary I would have backed off and let him call the block. BUT REMAIN IN PRIMARY UNLESS YOU ARE 200% SURE YOUR PARTNER KICKED IT!!!

He said that he had been taught that a blarge was okay. I told him it was a bail out call. The R said that I should never say that. Sometimes you can't avoid the blarge. Then I told him that is why pre-game is so important!!!

These blarges and other things (e.g., coach's box, calling the travel before A1 creams B2 after A1 gains control of the ball and turns and hits B2) we call or don't call, we bring upon ourselves. When you have the officials calling it correctly, you look like the odd ball.

If this was an NFHS game, then I'm 100% sure that YOU kicked it.

On the play you describe, once the Trail signaled a block and you signaled a charge, you need to correctly apply the rules as written in 4.19.8SitC.
The visiting coach had every right to insist that a blocking foul was also reported on the play.

[rockyroad]

If I am working an NFHS game or an NCAA-M game, then we as a crew will report both fouls and go with the POI...if I am woking an NCAA-W game, we will decide which one to go with...the guy from the other forum can feel however he wants to about the NFHS way of handling it, but to make up his own way or handle it like iref4him did is to unfairly penalize one team/coach...you can't do that under those rulesets!

Having said that, I think those who have been on this board long enough know my personal feelings about the blarge and the way it is handled under the different rulesets. But, when in Rome...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If this was an NFHS game, then I'm 100% sure that YOU kicked it.

On the play you describe, once the Trail signaled a block and you signaled a charge, you need to correctly apply the rules as written in 4.19.8SitC.
The visiting coach had every right to insist that a blocking foul was also reported on the play.

That's my point: I don't NEED to do anything.