traveling or pushing??

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

While I agree with much of what you guys have said, I must take issue with some of it. The point made that showing the ref rules wasn't a good idea by using the example of my own team player pointing out something to me, isn't a valid example. First, I am older and more knowledgable than a 13 year old player.
If a player pointed out a rule, that I was wrong on and he/she used a rule book to show me I would be open to see it and admit, if I was wrong to my lack of knowledge on my part. I think it is arrogance, which some, not all refs have, to think that every call they make, at that level is true and by the book. I've had at times one ref tell the other ref " dude, you know he's right, you got the call wrong." and still they refuse to admit they were wrong.
The other issue I have is what we should expect from refs at that level. Having players adjust who are 11-13 especially girls is asking way too much. I laughed when you stated the sactioned mugging, which is kinda my point. Obvisously you can't call every little thing, and that is not what I am asking for.
I am asking that since those players at that level aren't at a maturity of talent yet, need to be cut some slack on certain aspects of the game. Like traveling, picking up a pivit foot slightly to get a pass off, or a minor double dribble. Like I said if you called all of those strickly, the game would last 3 hours.
My final point is this. It's not that I go out and say "hey look, you were wrong" to the ref and fly the rule book in his face. I will usually go to them after the game and ask them what was their reasoning for certain calls, and why they called it that way. If I get an answer that contradicts the rules or isn't a call that is flat out wrong based on the rules, the next time I see them I use the rule book as a guide. Remeber what you said last week, well I researched it and this is what I found, I than show them the rule and even if they read it, they won't admit to being wrong. I understand you are human, and make mistakes, just like me, but to think that as a ref you are the be all end all to knowledge of rules is ignorant. Just like thinking I, as a coach am the same. I am not. I try to keep up as well with the rules so as not to make an *** of myself to a ref. When I am chastised by a ref and go home and reseach it, I will, next time I see him tell him he was right and I learned something. Yet in my experience, I have never had a ref do that to me.
Just as funny end to this rambling, I once had a ref I coached with who was as I called him a vengence ref. If you pissed him off, which could on some days be just saying "aw com'n" he would than begin making calls to punish my team. Other teams also, I wasn't the only one. I kid you not, he once called a T on me for nothing, He thought I said something, and T'd me up. At the time I wasn't even sure what happened and what foul was called, I asked him who is the foul on and what for?? He told me "you, you arrogant *******" and T'd me again and threw me out of the game. Which I didn't leave, but that is another story. He gained enough complaints that he was banned from reffing anymore....thank GOD!! but I thought you guys might find that funny.

My example is perfectly valid. It involves an authority figure being challenged by one over whom he has authority, on the very subject he is supposed to be authoratative about. And despite your protests about how you're different, your own words betray you as a card-carrying member of the same club: "First, I am older and more knowledgable than a 13 year old player."

Fact is, I've got a 12 yo that will whip your tail on knowledge of any subject that she's passionately interested in; and there are quite a few of them. Age is no guarantee of superior knowledge, and neither is a position of authority. Yet we all ignorantly plod along assuming we know more than those around us who are much younger or over whom we preside. And yes, none of us likes to be proven wrong. No big surprise there. What you're grousing about is not so much arrogant referees as it is human nature, and every one of us here can tell you many similar stories about coaches.

As for well called MS games, I don't know what else to tell you except Good Luck. Most places the only qualfication to be a MS referee is a willingness to do the job and the ability to get off work in time for the games. It's difficult work. Generally the games aren't "games." A "game" has a flow to it. You can call a "game" consistently because you can identify plays that are similar to previous plays and call them the same. MS games are more like a thousand individual and completely random moments strung together with bits of bad ball handling. It's a great place to learn to make calls. But it's a hopeless place to learn to call a consistent "game."

So that's what you get, guys who are learning to make calls. And how does one learn to make calls? By screwing calls up. Repeatedly. Until they learn to get them right. And when an official finally learns to get calls right, he usually moves on to bigger games.

OTOH, coaches can be pretty random too. You say you don't want us to call every little foul or violation. We can agree on that. The trouble then is agreeing on which ones matter. I guarantee you, 100% money back and all that, that over the course of an entire game you will believe that a violation or foul your opponent commits needs to be called way more often than a similar violation or foul commited by one of your own players. And if the game is close I will equally guarantee that you want every single violation called on your opponent, and every bit of contact your opponent creates to be called a foul. At that point, for you, it's not at all about maturity and skill level, it's about trying to use us to gain a competitive advantage.

Bottom line: players, coaches, and officials participate in MS games for the experience. Generally none of them are very good. Those that get better move on to higher levels. Those that don't quit or stay at the MS level.