Open for comment

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Then I would suggest you teach (coach) your players to stop turning and ducking.

There's quite a bit a player can do to turn a charge into a block.

Sadly, this is true do to officials who do not correctly call the charge/block. We as officials are much too quick to call a foul on the defense in these situations even when the defender has LGP and is retreating.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Sadly, this is true do to officials who do not correctly call the charge/block. We as officials are much too quick to call a foul on the defense in these situations even when the defender has LGP and is retreating.

I agree.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Sadly, this is true do to officials who do not correctly call the charge/block. We as officials are much too quick to call a foul on the defense in these situations even when the defender has LGP and is retreating.

No, this is due to how players are coached.

I would not agree that "we" as officials are too quick or too slow to do anything.

I would only say that there's a lot a player can do to turn a charge into a block. Of course there's also a lot a player can do to maintain LGP and get the charge. How it turns out depends to a large degree on the coaching.

This coach claims he rarely gets charge calls. As I said if I were him I would take a long look at what I'm teaching.

[deecee]

the only time a charge turns to a block IMO -- is when the defensive players starts to fall way before the contact -- that I deem a block -- and I know by definition a flop is a T in this case but thats a bit harsh and the contact is always the same as a normal block charge call.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by deecee

the only time a charge turns to a block IMO -- is when the defensive players starts to fall way before the contact -- that I deem a block -- and I know by definition a flop is a T in this case but thats a bit harsh and the contact is always the same as a normal block charge call.

Falling away can only lessen the contact, not increase it. If the player had stood his ground, would it be a block? No, then don't call a block if they step/fall away from the contact.

[deecee]

camron i disagree -- the defender is wimping out and putting the offensive player and him at risk for an ugly collision -- the onus on this is the defensive player to take the charge -- the defender falling early IMO he gives up LGP once he starts to do this

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

camron i disagree -- the defender is wimping out and putting the offensive player and him at risk for an ugly collision -- the onus on this is the defensive player to take the charge -- the defender falling early IMO he gives up LGP once he starts to do this

That might be a philosophy, but that does not fit the rule at all. I am not talking about a flop.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by deecee

camron i disagree -- the defender is wimping out and putting the offensive player and him at risk for an ugly collision -- the onus on this is the defensive player to take the charge -- the defender falling early IMO he gives up LGP once he starts to do this

Really. The offensive player who is barreling in at him at full speed has not part of making the ensuing collision ugly. A defender does NOT have to get injured to draw a charge. They are allowed to protect themselves....either by cushioning the blow with thier hands or by fading away. I'm not talking about flopping half way to the floor before contact...but just a bit of fade.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Falling away can only lessen the contact, not increase it. If the player had stood his ground, would it be a block? No, then don't call a block if they step/fall away from the contact.

Exactly. LGP doesn't turn into a block because a player might try to protect themselves a little from the contact by leaning backwards. It can never be a block if the defender had LGP at the time of contact, and was moving in any direction but towards the offensive player.

Calling a block because a defender falls backwards is just patently ridiculous imo. If you feel like no-calling it because of the lessened contact, fine, That's a judgement call. But don't make up your own rules and call it a block.

[deecee]

where is lgp when a player is half way falling down and then contact occurs? his feet might be planted but a 45degree angle of the body doth not lgp make imo

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

where is lgp when a player is half way falling down and then contact occurs? his feet might be planted but a 45degree angle of the body doth not lgp make imo

If you are having a problem with this, maybe you need to review the actual rule. I player can move backwards and maintain legal guarding position.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by deecee

where is lgp when a player is half way falling down and then contact occurs? his feet might be planted but a 45degree angle of the body doth not lgp make imo

You really don't understand the concept, do you?

And if it's explained, you also won't understand the explanation.

Sooooooo......buh-bye.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by deecee

where is lgp when a player is half way falling down and then contact occurs? his feet might be planted but a 45degree angle of the body doth not lgp make imo

We're not talking about a player halfway to the floor...you were not either. The original situation was a player who started to fade away and didn't stand in there and take it.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by deecee

the only time a charge turns to a block IMO -- is when the defensive players starts to fall way before the contact -- that I deem a block -- and I know by definition a flop is a T in this case but thats a bit harsh and the contact is always the same as a normal block charge call.

If a player starts falling backward before the call, I will often call it a block, and then say to the play, "if you want the charge, then you need to stand there and take it."

[81artmonk]

I would agree, and I always coach to plant and stand and take the hit, but unfortunetly most refs I experience won't make the call unless it is an iron clad obvious charge. Like the player has established LGP 3 steps ahead of the other player and he gets run over. That seems to be the only instance I have come across in my experience where a ref calls charging.
The most uncalled violation in my experience is Player A is defending the ball. Player B cuts around Player A, Another Player A2 anticipates this and assumes a LGP on the other side of his partner. Player B comes around the blind side of Player A and runs into Player A2. I see this called blocking all the time. When by definition he had established LGP more than 1 step from a player who was obstructed.