Held Ball or Foul?

[djskinn]

A1 shot rebounds to the center of the lane where A2 catches the ball with both hands directly over this head. This is immediately followed by B2 who reaches from behind and grabs the ball (no body contact) and pulls forcefully enough to cause A2 to fall directly backwards.

Do you have a held ball or has B2 created an advantage/disadvantage situation and should be whistled for a foul?

[JRutledge]

What happen first? The held ball happen first. You should have a held ball. It was the tugging on the ball that caused the contact (you said no contact).

Peace

[cmathews]

but it sounds like held ball to me

[djskinn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What happen first? The held ball happen first. You should have a held ball. It was the tugging on the ball that caused the contact (you said no contact).

Peace

I don't think I like the held ball call because I was thinking this was similar to a player wrapping his arms around a player. I went with the foul in my game, but was curious what other officials might call.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by djskinn

A1 shot rebounds to the center of the lane where A2 catches the ball with both hands directly over this head. This is immediately followed by B2 who reaches from behind and grabs the ball (no body contact) and pulls forcefully enough to cause A2 to fall directly backwards.

Do you have a held ball or has B2 created an advantage/disadvantage situation and should be whistled for a foul?

I had this happen in a girls varsity game and I called a held ball. But you have to call it quick or else it will turn into a game of Twister!!!!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Held Ball. Any contact that happens after that is ignored unless it's unsporting.

[djskinn]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Held Ball. Any contact that happens after that is ignored unless it's unsporting.

Curious if I change the situation a bit, A2 does not have clear possesion of the ball while still over his head, lets say A2 has a hand on the ball and is in the process of pulling down the rebound, but B2 grabs the ball from behind(with no body contact) and pulls A2 to the floor, you still are going to call a held ball?

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by djskinn

(with no body contact)

No contact no foul......a personal foul has to involve contact

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by cmathews

No contact no foul......a personal foul has to involve contact

Agreed, it might look ugly, but there is no foul unless there is contact.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by djskinn

I don't think I like the held ball call because I was thinking this was similar to a player wrapping his arms around a player. I went with the foul in my game, but was curious what other officials might call.

Did the player in your game wrap his arms around the opponent? No.

Then how is this play similiar?

You can't have a foul without contact. In your play, there is no contact between A2 and B2.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by djskinn

Curious if I change the situation a bit, A2 does not have clear possesion of the ball while still over his head, lets say A2 has a hand on the ball and is in the process of pulling down the rebound, but B2 grabs the ball from behind(with no body contact) and pulls A2 to the floor, you still are going to call a held ball?

djskinn, what would be the basis of calling a foul in this situation? What contact has occurred that you would consider a foul? Are you saying just b/c B2 is stronger than A2, B2 gets penalized with a foul?

I need to understand your thinking in this situation. I have one guy who comes to me for advice on plays. Whenever he asks my opinion I always make him explain his stance first. A lot of times he'll realize he's wrong or right just by listening to his own explanation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by djskinn

Curious if I change the situation a bit, A2 does not have clear possesion of the ball while still over his head, lets say A2 has a hand on the ball and is in the process of pulling down the rebound, but B2 grabs the ball from behind(with no body contact) and pulls A2 to the floor, you still are going to call a held ball?

Nope. A2 doesn't have possession so you can't call a held ball. B2 didn't enact or commit any bodily contact so you can't call a foul on B2. A2 didn't have player control of the ball when he went to the floor so you can't call traveling on A2. Soooooo...unless B2 also went to the floor after grabbing the ball, there really isn't anything to call afaik. Play on, McDuff, and damn be him who first cries "enuff".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by djskinn

I don't think I like the held ball call because I was thinking this was similar to a player wrapping his arms around a player. I went with the foul in my game, but was curious what other officials might call.

You called a foul because there was contact alone? That is not a very good judgment if you ask me. There is almost always contact on a held ball. You should not call a foul if there was a held ball first and then contact second.

Peace

[imagomer]

WOW! As a coach who has learned that there is no "over the back" and that a taller player MAY reach over a shorter player for a rebound, so long as there is no advantageous contact, I would freak out (and be ignored by most officials here) if you called my player for her fifth (hypothetically) because a girl whom she had not contacted fell down while they both had hold of the ball. My girl did not initiate contact to gain an advantage; the faller lost her balance to give up the advantage.

[djskinn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You called a foul because there was contact alone? That is not a very good judgment if you ask me. There is almost always contact on a held ball. You should not call a foul if there was a held ball first and then contact second.

Peace

Seems to me that their is some advantage gained by a defensive player for reaching from behind, whether it be over the head or from behind the back. If both players went up together for a rebound and each had an equal opportunity to rebound, I would have nothing.

Good judgment or not, I still am not fully convinced a held ball is the absolute and only call.