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-   -   Held Ball or Foul? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/31244-held-ball-foul.html)

djskinn Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:21am

Held Ball or Foul?
 
A1 shot rebounds to the center of the lane where A2 catches the ball with both hands directly over this head. This is immediately followed by B2 who reaches from behind and grabs the ball (no body contact) and pulls forcefully enough to cause A2 to fall directly backwards.

Do you have a held ball or has B2 created an advantage/disadvantage situation and should be whistled for a foul?

JRutledge Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:24am

What happen first? The held ball happen first. You should have a held ball. It was the tugging on the ball that caused the contact (you said no contact).

Peace

cmathews Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:25am

have to see to be sure
 
but it sounds like held ball to me

djskinn Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge
What happen first? The held ball happen first. You should have a held ball. It was the tugging on the ball that caused the contact (you said no contact).

Peace

I don't think I like the held ball call because I was thinking this was similar to a player wrapping his arms around a player. I went with the foul in my game, but was curious what other officials might call.

IREFU2 Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by djskinn
A1 shot rebounds to the center of the lane where A2 catches the ball with both hands directly over this head. This is immediately followed by B2 who reaches from behind and grabs the ball (no body contact) and pulls forcefully enough to cause A2 to fall directly backwards.

Do you have a held ball or has B2 created an advantage/disadvantage situation and should be whistled for a foul?

I had this happen in a girls varsity game and I called a held ball. But you have to call it quick or else it will turn into a game of Twister!!!!!

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:41am

Held Ball. Any contact that happens after that is ignored unless it's unsporting.

djskinn Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Held Ball. Any contact that happens after that is ignored unless it's unsporting.

Curious if I change the situation a bit, A2 does not have clear possesion of the ball while still over his head, lets say A2 has a hand on the ball and is in the process of pulling down the rebound, but B2 grabs the ball from behind(with no body contact) and pulls A2 to the floor, you still are going to call a held ball?

cmathews Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by djskinn
(with no body contact)

No contact no foul......a personal foul has to involve contact

IREFU2 Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmathews
No contact no foul......a personal foul has to involve contact

Agreed, it might look ugly, but there is no foul unless there is contact.

BktBallRef Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by djskinn
I don't think I like the held ball call because I was thinking this was similar to a player wrapping his arms around a player. I went with the foul in my game, but was curious what other officials might call.

Did the player in your game wrap his arms around the opponent? No.

Then how is this play similiar?

You can't have a foul without contact. In your play, there is no contact between A2 and B2.

Raymond Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by djskinn
Curious if I change the situation a bit, A2 does not have clear possesion of the ball while still over his head, lets say A2 has a hand on the ball and is in the process of pulling down the rebound, but B2 grabs the ball from behind(with no body contact) and pulls A2 to the floor, you still are going to call a held ball?

djskinn, what would be the basis of calling a foul in this situation? What contact has occurred that you would consider a foul? Are you saying just b/c B2 is stronger than A2, B2 gets penalized with a foul?

I need to understand your thinking in this situation. I have one guy who comes to me for advice on plays. Whenever he asks my opinion I always make him explain his stance first. A lot of times he'll realize he's wrong or right just by listening to his own explanation.

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by djskinn
Curious if I change the situation a bit, <font color = red>A2 does not have clear possesion of the ball while still over his head</font>, lets say A2 has a hand on the ball and is in the process of pulling down the rebound, but <font color = red>B2 grabs the ball from behind(with no body contact) and pulls A2 to the floor</font>, you still are going to call a held ball?

Nope. A2 doesn't have possession so you can't call a held ball. B2 didn't enact or commit any bodily contact so you can't call a foul on B2. A2 didn't have player control of the ball when he went to the floor so you can't call traveling on A2. Soooooo...unless B2 also went to the floor <b>after</b> grabbing the ball, there really isn't <b>anything</b> to call afaik. Play on, McDuff, and damn be him who first cries "enuff".

JRutledge Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by djskinn
I don't think I like the held ball call because I was thinking this was similar to a player wrapping his arms around a player. I went with the foul in my game, but was curious what other officials might call.

You called a foul because there was contact alone? :confused: That is not a very good judgment if you ask me. There is almost always contact on a held ball. You should not call a foul if there was a held ball first and then contact second.

Peace

imagomer Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:33pm

WOW! As a coach who has learned that there is no "over the back" and that a taller player MAY reach over a shorter player for a rebound, so long as there is no advantageous contact, I would freak out (and be ignored by most officials here) if you called my player for her fifth (hypothetically) because a girl whom she had not contacted fell down while they both had hold of the ball. My girl did not initiate contact to gain an advantage; the faller lost her balance to give up the advantage.

djskinn Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge
You called a foul because there was contact alone? :confused: That is not a very good judgment if you ask me. There is almost always contact on a held ball. You should not call a foul if there was a held ball first and then contact second.

Peace

Seems to me that their is some advantage gained by a defensive player for reaching from behind, whether it be over the head or from behind the back. If both players went up together for a rebound and each had an equal opportunity to rebound, I would have nothing.

Good judgment or not, I still am not fully convinced a held ball is the absolute and only call.


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