Anal Pivot question

[archer]

This really happened the other night. Was doing a Boys Varisty game. Mid way thru 2nd quarter. Kid grabs rebound and then falls to floor landing on his rear. I come up with the walk signal. While kid is getting up he ask me why I called a walk????? I tell him he b/c you fell to floor with ball. He then tells me that he didnt walk b/c he transferred his pivot to his butt! I said " you did what"! I show big grin and administer throw in to other team. While going up sideline to get in trail which happens to be where his coaches box is. I begin officiating. His coach is standing beside me and tells me I missed the walk call. I ask him why he thinks that.... He tells me the exact same thing his kid said. I look at him with a blank look on my face and say.... Oh your talking about the new anal pivot rule? He has big beaming smile on his face b/c he thinks he has one up'd the ref.... Again the blank look on my face I say..... "Never heard of it" and then smile and go down to be new lead. When I am back at T, I tell coach that there is no such rule and that if he would like I would show him the rule book that I am assuming he has never seen. He then tells me that he is positive that I missed it b/c another ref from another association told him that you can transfer your pivot to your butt. I shake my head and smile at him and finish the game..... If another official wasnt standing within ear shot of this I am sure that no one would have beleived me when I passed on this story to the guys I work with. So fellow officials........ You better start familiarizing yourself with this new rule..... Remember its the Anal pivot and we have been missing this call for years now and the coaches are wanting us to start getting it right.

[All_Heart]

I was actually about to start a thread on this topic.

The NFHS rule is very clear cut with this rule.

Rule 4-44-5 . . . A player holding the ball:
a.May not touch the floor with a knee or any other part of the body other than hand or foot.

Case Play 4.44.5 SITUATION A
Is it traveling if A1 falls to the floor: (a) while holding the ball; or (b) after being airborne to catch a pass or control a rebound? RULING: Yes in both (a) and (b).

The NCAA rule is a little harder to interpret because you are allowed to drop to a knee if you don't move your pivot foot. If you catch the ball while airborne then you do not have a pivot foot established. If you land on your back you still have not established a pivot foot.

A.R. 110. Is it traveling when a player falls to the playing court while holding the ball RULING: Yes, because it is virtually impossible not to move the pivot foot when falling to the playing floor. When a player falls to one knee while holding the ball, it is traveling if the pivot foot moves.

Am I missing a case play or a rule that interprets this situation a little better?

[deecee]

this gets me -- player goes for rebound -- and lets say he lands on his back -- basically he jumps gets ball and off balance just lands on his back -- foot never touches the floor -- he pretty much goes thump -- would that still be a travel?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by deecee

this gets me -- player goes for rebound -- and lets say he lands on his back -- basically he jumps gets ball and off balance just lands on his back -- foot never touches the floor -- he pretty much goes thump -- would that still be a travel?

Read the case play posted above.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by archer

He then tells me that he didnt walk b/c he transferred his pivot to his butt!

I'll bite...

Maybe he had his pivot foot up his butt??

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by CoachP

I'll bite...

Maybe he had his pivot foot up his butt??

More likely his head...

Retroplasectomy anyone? Admittedly a bit extreme, but only known remedy for severe case of RCI

[deecee]

rich i can read the case play -- i am asking what happens if no foot ever touched the floor -- hard to argue travel when there was no pivot.

A player can't fall and touch the floor with other than his hand or foot while holding the ball.

Which part don't you get?

[deecee]

but its ok to gain possession while falling

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by deecee

but its ok to gain possession while falling

Catching the ball is perfectly legal, obviously. But if you then land on the floor while holding the ball, it's traveling.

[deecee]

fair enough

[Back In The Saddle]

Sure, you can transfer your pivot to your butt, but you have to keep track of which is the pivot cheek

[buckrog64]

Like anything else, there's a bit of truth from both sides. The coach wants to have a gluteal pivot which to a certain extent you can have, provided you acquired the ball while already on the floor. Otherwise, as the situation was described, anyone who has spent any time in stripes knows that falling to the floor while holding the ball is traveling.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Catching the ball is perfectly legal, obviously. But if you then land on the floor while holding the ball, it's traveling.

Not if you are diving for a loose ball . . .

[mplagrow]

Maybe some of you guys remember a year ago when somebody posted a link to some "ask the ref" site where he explained the pivot rule when players are on the ground. He discussed establishing a "pivot cheek" and what the could and could not do. None of it was from any rulebook I had ever seen!

Anyone else remember that?