things that strike this rookie as odd...

[SWMOzebra]

Working double header B&G JV games last week with a much senior partner, but a super nice guy. We have a good pre-game, I ask some questions, pick his brain on a couple of things and then we're out on the floor watching warm-ups.

Here's what hit me as odd:
1. During the meeting with the coaches and captains, he says unless they specify immediately on a TO he will give them the full if they have one available. Seems odd to me, I always try to remember to ask. I ask him about it after everyone clears and he says it's just easier this way. In his opinion, by the time he gets someone to tell him full or half, too much time has already elapsed.

2. Early first half and I'm working L baseline, ball is in his area. I observe a 3-sec. lane violation, I look quickly to make sure a shot is not immediately coming, look back and he's still parked dead center of the lane...so I hit my whistle. The coach goes crazy...."Did you warn him, did you warn him?" he repeatedly asked me. "No coach, I didn't warn him...he's in HS now and should be able to determine when he's been in the lane too long." At the end of the first quarter, my P comes over and says that I need to say "LANE" a couple of times loud enough for the coaches to hear before I hit the whistle. My response to him was the same as my response to the coach.

Basically, I'm looking for everyone's thoughts on these. I guess I can more easily understand the first though certainly can't find a fed rule to support. The second one I'm not buying into at all.

Thanks in the advance for the voices of experience!

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

I guess I can more easily understand the first though certainly can't find a fed rule to support. The second one I'm not buying into at all.

Me, I'm going exactly the opposite. I agree with the second, but not the first. I'm going to ask the coach once, maybe even twice if the players are still on the floor, "Full or 30, Coach?" Then if I get no answer, it's a full.

On the second one, I'm definitely going to try to nudge the kid out of the lane before I blow the whistle. I'd rather not call 3-seconds, if I can avoid it. If I can get the kid to avoid the violation, that's what I'll try to do. If he ignores me or is just brain-dead, then I have to call it after a while. But the whistle is definitely not my first tool in this situation.

[cmathews]

the pregame meeting "warning" is pretty common. I am of the mind that I don't start the TO clock until the players have made it near their own benches anyway, so while the players are coming over I can get the full or thirty signal. However if I look over and ask full or thirty and don't get a response, it is a full....

The three second thing will be debated here I am sure. I am one that will do almost anything to avoid a three second call. As you progress you may or may not adopt this philosophy. What I tell our young guys here when I see them using the 3 second call a lot is this. What advantage did they gain? I warn them tell them to get out, but if they don't dump the ball into them or they don't set a screen in the lane, what advantage have they gained? Maybe 1 in 10 times they will get position on a rebound. If there is no advantage gained there is no violation. You see it all the time, evaluators tell us not to worry so much about the palming violation if the player is just up on top yo yoing the ball, not trying to get somewhere....I know for a fact that the big dogs at D-I go out of their way to not call three seconds. At a camp I heard someone ask a guy who has worked a national chapionship game in the last 5 years what he would do if a kid was in the lane...he said, I will warn him, if that doesn't work, I will walk up to him and tell him to get is lazy a$$ out of the lane, and if that doesn't work I will go grab him and pull him out of the lane.....

[JRutledge]

All I can say is you cannot do everything an official that has been working longer than you does. All a senior official means is they have been working longer than you. It does not mean they are very knowledgeable or that what they do, everyone else does.
You should always ask yourself, "Why is he/she here?" If you are a rookie and they are a "senior official," why are they here working with you? Now that answer can be a lot of things, but it might be they cannot work anywhere else.

Peace

[amcginthy]

[QUOTE=
On the second one, I'm definitely going to try to nudge the kid out of the lane before I blow the whistle. I'd rather not call 3-seconds, if I can avoid it. If I can get the kid to avoid the violation, that's what I'll try to do. If he ignores me or is just brain-dead, then I have to call it after a while. But the whistle is definitely not my first tool in this situation.[/QUOTE]

HS Ball.... I don't know about this one.. I can see maybe early in the game... if a player is in the lane and is attempting to get out... then you say "hey, watch the 3 seconds"... but someone camped in the lane...

hey, I'm a coach, and I know that I appreciate when I see something that wasn't called and I knew the ref saw it - especially if they point it out to the player - makes them think about it more... my concern with this is...consistency... this I think you will find is what coaches get the most frustrated about... now, you will have to give the other team the same benefit to be consistent...

[truerookie]

SWMOzebra, you have to adopt the philosphy of the SMBOA if you belong to that association. They have a philosphy in that part of the state which is odd.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by amcginthy

now, you will have to give the other team the same benefit to be consistent...

That goes without saying. I'm not trying to nail one team's 3-second violations but not the other team's. I'm hoping to avoid the violations altogether.

[Junker]

I try to talk to players about 3 seconds. I view this call as a game interruptor. I'll speak loudly, "Get out of the lane white" or whomever a couple or few times and if they don't get moving, I'll blow the whistle. In my pregame, I usually mention to players to be listening to us as we will be talking to them at times during the games. Just the way I handle it.

[JRutledge]

If I call 3 seconds, I want the call to be an obvious call. I do not want a toe on the line to be my call. What I usually do is say "Lane" a few times and that usually helps get a kid to get out of the lane. Also this is not a huge priority when compared to contact fouls and other player movement that could cause fouls. I am not "looking" to call 3 seconds.

Peace

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by truerookie

SWMOzebra, you have to adopt the philosphy of the SMBOA if you belong to that association. They have a philosphy in that part of the state which is odd.

What you should do in both of these situations, is find out what the prevailing practice is in your area. Whatever most other officials do is what you should do. Unless most officials specifically go against what is dictated by your local authority. If your association or board has a specific way they want you to handle it, do it that way.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Junker

I view this call as a game interruptor. I'll speak loudly, "Get out of the lane white" or whomever a couple or few times and if they don't get moving, I'll blow the whistle.

But if you blow your whistle, isn't that then a game interrupter?

[SWMOzebra]

Thanks for the words of wisdom. Near as I can tell, the 3-sec. warning seems to be the prevailing philosophy locally. I guess I'm too new to the job to understand the concept of "game interrupter." Each whistle interrupts the game and I'm there to enforce the rules consistently and fairly. I think I understand the advantage/disadvantage argument and agree that extra lane time does not necessarily impart any advantage to the violator, but I also notice the rules don't make that distinction. It appears to be consistent with others in the area I'll have to go to the warning as well.

As for the TO drill, I haven't found anyone else who works it quite like my P did....but I'm not complaining about how he handled it, I had just never encountered it before that night. Then again, as a rookie, I can say that I encounter something new at pretty much each game I call!

[Jesse James]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

Thanks for the words of wisdom. Near as I can tell, the 3-sec. warning seems to be the prevailing philosophy locally. I guess I'm too new to the job to understand the concept of "game interrupter." Each whistle interrupts the game and I'm there to enforce the rules consistently and fairly. I think I understand the advantage/disadvantage argument and agree that extra lane time does not necessarily impart any advantage to the violator, but I also notice the rules don't make that distinction. It appears to be consistent with others in the area I'll have to go to the warning as well.

As for the TO drill, I haven't found anyone else who works it quite like my P did....but I'm not complaining about how he handled it, I had just never encountered it before that night. Then again, as a rookie, I can say that I encounter something new at pretty much each game I call!

To muddy your waters a little more--just remember that an offensive post player that's getting 5 or 6 seconds in the lane every trip, may well be dragging a second defender with him---that leaves another shooter with a better look than what he might have had otherwise. Even though a bit latent, it seems like a hell of an advantage to me. But I think I was always in the minority on this one. Just food for thought.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

I guess I'm too new to the job to understand the concept of "game interrupter."

Me too.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

I guess I'm too new to the job to understand the concept of "game interrupter." Each whistle interrupts the game and I'm there to enforce the rules consistently and fairly.

Game interrupters are calls that are either too technical or things that do not really need to be called. In other words you call a traveling that is questionable or a carry call that might be questionable at best. Almost universally 3 second calls are considered game interrupters if it is called very technically. I would never say not to make that call, just do so trying to prevent it. If you have to make that call, you after all are an official and have a whistle as a tool. I can tell you that I am lucky if I make this call one time in a season. I have found ways to warn and get my point across and not making this call. As time goes on you will see this is not a high priority.

Peace