Held Ball or Foul?

[djskinn]

A1 shot rebounds to the center of the lane where A2 catches the ball with both hands directly over this head. This is immediately followed by B2 who reaches from behind and grabs the ball (no body contact) and pulls forcefully enough to cause A2 to fall directly backwards.

Do you have a held ball or has B2 created an advantage/disadvantage situation and should be whistled for a foul?

[JRutledge]

What happen first? The held ball happen first. You should have a held ball. It was the tugging on the ball that caused the contact (you said no contact).

Peace

[djskinn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What happen first? The held ball happen first. You should have a held ball. It was the tugging on the ball that caused the contact (you said no contact).

Peace

I don't think I like the held ball call because I was thinking this was similar to a player wrapping his arms around a player. I went with the foul in my game, but was curious what other officials might call.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by djskinn

I don't think I like the held ball call because I was thinking this was similar to a player wrapping his arms around a player. I went with the foul in my game, but was curious what other officials might call.

Did the player in your game wrap his arms around the opponent? No.

Then how is this play similiar?

You can't have a foul without contact. In your play, there is no contact between A2 and B2.

[djskinn]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Did the player in your game wrap his arms around the opponent? No.

Then how is this play similiar?

You can't have a foul without contact. In your play, there is no contact between A2 and B2.

If you are physically capable of wrapping your arms around a player without contact due to size (larger vs. smaller player), are you still calling a held ball. Seems to me that the defensive player has created a major disadvantage and could do so by not initially creating any contact whatsoever.

In my situation, and at that moment, it appeared to me that this was an instance of advantage/disadvantage.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by djskinn

If you are physically capable of wrapping your arms around a player without contact due to size (larger vs. smaller player), are you still calling a held ball. Seems to me that the defensive player has created a major disadvantage and could do so by not initially creating any contact whatsoever.

In my situation, and at that moment, it appeared to me that this was an instance of advantage/disadvantage.

A/D only applies to contact that is otherwise illegal. In this post, you have no contact. "Reaching" is not illegal, no matter what the coach tells you.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by djskinn

I don't think I like the held ball call because I was thinking this was similar to a player wrapping his arms around a player. I went with the foul in my game, but was curious what other officials might call.

You called a foul because there was contact alone? That is not a very good judgment if you ask me. There is almost always contact on a held ball. You should not call a foul if there was a held ball first and then contact second.

Peace

[imagomer]

WOW! As a coach who has learned that there is no "over the back" and that a taller player MAY reach over a shorter player for a rebound, so long as there is no advantageous contact, I would freak out (and be ignored by most officials here) if you called my player for her fifth (hypothetically) because a girl whom she had not contacted fell down while they both had hold of the ball. My girl did not initiate contact to gain an advantage; the faller lost her balance to give up the advantage.

[djskinn]

Originally Posted by imagomer

WOW! As a coach who has learned that there is no "over the back" and that a taller player MAY reach over a shorter player for a rebound, so long as there is no advantageous contact, I would freak out (and be ignored by most officials here) if you called my player for her fifth (hypothetically) because a girl whom she had not contacted fell down while they both had hold of the ball. My girl did not initiate contact to gain an advantage; the faller lost her balance to give up the advantage.

No "over the back" was called and this was not a fifth foul situation. B2's pulling of the ball forced A2 off balance and backwards.

[djskinn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You called a foul because there was contact alone? That is not a very good judgment if you ask me. There is almost always contact on a held ball. You should not call a foul if there was a held ball first and then contact second.

Peace

Seems to me that their is some advantage gained by a defensive player for reaching from behind, whether it be over the head or from behind the back. If both players went up together for a rebound and each had an equal opportunity to rebound, I would have nothing.

Good judgment or not, I still am not fully convinced a held ball is the absolute and only call.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by djskinn

Seems to me that their is some advantage gained by a defensive player for reaching from behind, whether it be over the head or from behind the back. If both players went up together for a rebound and each had an equal opportunity to rebound, I would have nothing.

Good judgment or not, I still am not fully convinced a held ball is the absolute and only call.

You are missing the point. The ball was grabbed before there was any contact.

Are you telling me that if the players were facing each other and you have a clear held ball and because of the force of the players tugging on the ball they fall to the floor you have to have a foul?

If that is what you are saying that is horrible judgment. The held ball took place first. Also just wrapping your arms around another player is not automatically a foul either.

You do not have to agree with that, but remember you said there was no contact and now you are calling a foul. Not only is that bad judgment that is not using the rules the way they are supposed to be used.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by djskinn

Seems to me that their is some advantage gained by a defensive player for reaching from behind, whether it be over the head or from behind the back. If both players went up together for a rebound and each had an equal opportunity to rebound, I would have nothing.

Good judgment or not, I still am not fully convinced a held ball is the absolute and only call.

So, you're saying that you are penalizing a person for being tall or being able to jump?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by djskinn

Seems to me that their is some advantage gained by a defensive player for reaching from behind, whether it be over the head or from behind the back.

I agree. The problem is that it's a legal advantage.

[cmathews]

but it sounds like held ball to me

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by djskinn

A1 shot rebounds to the center of the lane where A2 catches the ball with both hands directly over this head. This is immediately followed by B2 who reaches from behind and grabs the ball (no body contact) and pulls forcefully enough to cause A2 to fall directly backwards.

Do you have a held ball or has B2 created an advantage/disadvantage situation and should be whistled for a foul?

I had this happen in a girls varsity game and I called a held ball. But you have to call it quick or else it will turn into a game of Twister!!!!!