Correctable error with substitution

[tjchamp]

Team a is in the bonus (1 + 1) when a1 gets fouled. However, the officials are not notified/aware of the free throw situation. A6 enters as a sub for a1. Ball is inbounded, then A coach realizes he is in bonus situation and calls timeout so he can get his free throws.

1. Does a1 come back into the game at that point to shoot his ft's?
2. Does you answer change if a1 picks up a T on his way to the bench (he was bench personnel at this point) for his 5th foul?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tjchamp

Team a is in the bonus (1 + 1) when a1 gets fouled. However, the officials are not notified/aware of the free throw situation. A6 enters as a sub for a1. Ball is inbounded, then A coach realizes he is in bonus situation and calls timeout so he can get his free throws.

1. Does a1 come back into the game at that point to shoot his ft's?
2. Does you answer change if a1 picks up a T on his way to the bench (he was bench personnel at this point) for his 5th foul?

1. Yes, A1 must reenter and shoot the merited FTs for the personal foul. This would be the case even if the clock had not yet started. This is an exception to the substitution rule.
2005-06 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations

SITUATION 1: A1 is fouled by B1 late in the second quarter. It is a common foul and the seventh Team B foul. The bonus situation is not recognized by the scorer or the officiating crew, and the Team A coach substitutes A6 for A1. A6 is beckoned onto the floor and A1 goes to the team bench. The scorer recognizes the error and sounds the horn (a) just before or (b) just after the administering official hands the ball to A2 for a throw-in. RULING: This is a correctable-error situation and falls within the proper timeframe for a correction. In both (a) and (b), A6 leaves the game with A1 re-entering to shoot the bonus free throw. Play is resumed as after any free-throw attempt(s). If the second free throw is successful and the coach desires, A6 may re-enter the contest. (2-10-1a; 2-10-6)

2. If the player is disqualified prior to attempting merited FTs then his substitute takes the throws.

RULE 8, SECTION 2 ATTEMPTING PERSONAL-FOUL FREE THROWS
The free throw(s) awarded because of a personal foul shall be attempted by the offended player. If such player must withdraw because of an injury or disqualification, his/her substitute shall attempt the throw(s) unless no substitute is available, in which case any teammate may attempt the throw(s) as selected by the team captain or head coach.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tjchamp

Team a is in the bonus (1 + 1) when a1 gets fouled. However, the officials are not notified/aware of the free throw situation. A6 enters as a sub for a1. Ball is inbounded, then A coach realizes he is in bonus situation and calls timeout so he can get his free throws.

1. Does a1 come back into the game at that point to shoot his ft's?
2. Does you answer change if a1 picks up a T on his way to the bench (he was bench personnel at this point) for his 5th foul?

#1. Yes, A1 is the player who should shoot the FTs.

#2. Yes. If A1 is now disqualified, the coach may chose a sub to shoot for A1. This is no different than if A1 recieved a disqualifing foul in a normal situation. However, I believe it could be argued that A6, who has already entered the game for A1, should be the shooter but that would be complicated by the possibility that A7 and A8 may have entered at the same time...making it impossible to determine which one was A1's replacement.

And no, he is not bench personnel at this point. How do we know that A1 is really the player being replaced? Just as A1 gets to the sideline, the coach says, "No, you stay in, A3 was is supposed to come out." Until he is off the court, I'm treating him as a player.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Until he is off the court, I'm treating him as a player.

While I understand your point as players no longer are required to provide the number of the player they are replacing to the scorer, I don't believe that what you propose is the proper criterion to use.

4-34-3 . . . A substitute becomes a player when he/she legally enters the court. If entry is not legal, the substitute becomes a player when the ball becomes live. A player becomes bench personnel after his/her substitute becomes a player or after notification of the coach following his/her disqualification.

[tjchamp]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

1. Yes, A1 must reenter and shoot the merited FTs for the personal foul. This would be the case even if the clock had not yet started. This is an exception to the substitution rule.
2005-06 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations

SITUATION 1: A1 is fouled by B1 late in the second quarter. It is a common foul and the seventh Team B foul. The bonus situation is not recognized by the scorer or the officiating crew, and the Team A coach substitutes A6 for A1. A6 is beckoned onto the floor and A1 goes to the team bench. The scorer recognizes the error and sounds the horn (a) just before or (b) just after the administering official hands the ball to A2 for a throw-in. RULING: This is a correctable-error situation and falls within the proper timeframe for a correction. In both (a) and (b), A6 leaves the game with A1 re-entering to shoot the bonus free throw. Play is resumed as after any free-throw attempt(s). If the second free throw is successful and the coach desires, A6 may re-enter the contest. (2-10-1a; 2-10-6)

2. If the player is disqualified prior to attempting merited FTs then his substitute takes the throws.

RULE 8, SECTION 2 ATTEMPTING PERSONAL-FOUL FREE THROWS
The free throw(s) awarded because of a personal foul shall be attempted by the offended player. If such player must withdraw because of an injury or disqualification, his/her substitute shall attempt the throw(s) unless no substitute is available, in which case any teammate may attempt the throw(s) as selected by the team captain or head coach.

Great information. Where did you get the "interp" from? Is that online somewhere?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tjchamp

Great information. Where did you get the "interp" from? Is that online somewhere?

Each year the NFHS issues interps on their website. Unfortunately, they do not archive the ones from past years and keep them available online. I always save a copy each year. That one was from last season.
Here is the link to this year's:
http://www.nfhs.org/web/2006/10/2006..._rules_in.aspx

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

While I understand your point as players no longer are required to provide the number of the player they are replacing to the scorer, I don't believe that what you propose is the proper criterion to use.

4-34-3 . . . A substitute becomes a player when he/she legally enters the court. If entry is not legal, the substitute becomes a player when the ball becomes live. A player becomes bench personnel after his/her substitute becomes a player or after notification of the coach following his/her disqualification.

How do you know which player a substitute is replacing when there are 6 players still on the court? It could be any of the 5 that were there to start with. If A1 starts heading in the direction of the bench does that make him bench personnel? What if the coach stops him when gets near the bench ands says it should be A2 that is coming off? Are you going to insist that A1 must go out and stay out until the clock has run? Or are you going to let A1 stay in and A2 go out?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

How do you know which player a substitute is replacing when there are 6 players still on the court? It could be any of the 5 that were there to start with. If A1 starts heading in the direction of the bench does that make him bench personnel? What if the coach stops him when gets near the bench ands says it should be A2 that is coming off? Are you going to insist that A1 must go out and stay out until the clock has run? Or are you going to let A1 stay in and A2 go out?

Camron,
I agree with you. I just don't want you to use/invent a rule of your own and apply that instead of the actual rule given in the book.
Furthermore, this rule only comes into play when some kind of problem occurs.
If I ever have an issue with a player who is heading to the bench, I sincerely hope that it is obvious who is leaving the game and who isn't. When it isn't we have a tough decision to make. If I ever have to make that decision, I am going to apply what is written in the book, not go by a rule of thumb.

That's the point I was trying to make.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Camron,
I agree with you. I just don't want you to use/invent a rule of your own and apply that instead of the actual rule given in the book.
Furthermore, this rule only comes into play when some kind of problem occurs.
If I ever have an issue with a player who is heading to the bench, I sincerely hope that it is obvious who is leaving the game and who isn't. When it isn't we have a tough decision to make. If I ever have to make that decision, I am going to apply what is written in the book, not go by a rule of thumb.

That's the point I was trying to make.

All true. I'm all for going what what is written in the book. But the question still remains....how do you know which player is leaving the game when a substitute comes in? There is no rule in the book that indicates this. So, you're left with a rule of thumb...consider them all players until it is obvious who is going/has gone out....when they step OOB and sit down.