Substitution Error

red · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 15, 2003, 09:10am

This past weekend I officiated my first BB game as a licensed official. It went very well. There was one instance where Team A and B brought in 2- 3 subs each. I was near the table and and monitored the substitutions. When it appeared all had completed there subs, we intiated throw-in and the ball became live. One of the plays on Team A turned to me and said Team B had six guys. We ended-up with a Technical Foul situation. Shame on me for not counting the final total number of players? Shame on Team B players for not communicating?

JugglingReferee · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 15, 2003, 09:24am

Ah yes, the mass substitution scenario.

More than 50% of the players are being replaced, they are crossing each other's paths by taking the shortest distance to their bench. You might have a late stragler who doesn't know he's being replaced becuase he didn't hear his name. He might run to catch up to his buds or he might not. There might be two Daves on the court and each one thinks that the other is being replaced. I don't know - anything could happen. I hate it when one slips by me.

If there is no effect on the play: ie. a throw-in in the backcourt with little to no pressure:

I would blow the play dead and accept responsibility for not "doing my job" and ask a B coach to choose the player than should come off. [If A wants to make a match-up substitution, all the power to him.] Then give a throw-in for the team last in possession.

Each head coach is ultimately responsible, but do not be afraid of accepting responsibility for this one. It appers that you guys knew B has 6 because an A player told you right after the ball became live.

However, if we have alot of pressure or we're in the frontcourt, the ability to inbound and set up offense became an advantage. At that point, although *I* still think it's the official's fault, you have to go with the T because, yes, "each head coach is ultimately responsible".

That's just my take.

red · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 15, 2003, 09:44am

We were initially going to re-do the thow-in and not bother with the technical foul. However, several by-standers reminded us it was a technical foul and the referee decided to enforce. It did not cause any problems, in fact the coach recieving the T actuall gave it players a lecture on substitution and used it as a teaching aid. I thought that was a sign of a good coach.

Jurassic Referee · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 15, 2003, 11:37am

Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
[B
If there is no effect on the play: ie. a throw-in in the backcourt with little to no pressure:

I would blow the play dead and accept responsibility for not "doing my job" and ask a B coach to choose the player than should come off. [If A wants to make a match-up substitution, all the power to him.] Then give a throw-in for the team last in possession.

However, if we have alot of pressure or we're in the frontcourt, the ability to inbound and set up offense became an advantage. At that point, although *I* still think it's the official's fault, you have to go with the T because, yes, "each head coach is ultimately responsible".

[/B]

Can't agree at all with you.

What do you do,in the first case, when Coach A says "why isn't that a T, Ref?"? You have to be consistent, and you also have to call these situations by the rule book. Being "Mr Nice Guy" can get your a$$ in a sling, Mike, when you start making up your own rules. Yes, the officials should have caught it. No, the officials didn't catch it. Just make the proper call, and move on. Advantage/disadvantage was never meant to apply to situations like this.

The "each coach is ultimately responsible" theorem doesn't change if the situations happen to be slightly different. The bottom line is that team B had 6 players on the court, and that's a T.

Larry · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 15, 2003, 01:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
[B
If there is no effect on the play: ie. a throw-in in the backcourt with little to no pressure:

I would blow the play dead and accept responsibility for not "doing my job" and ask a B coach to choose the player than should come off. [If A wants to make a match-up substitution, all the power to him.] Then give a throw-in for the team last in possession.

However, if we have alot of pressure or we're in the frontcourt, the ability to inbound and set up offense became an advantage. At that point, although *I* still think it's the official's fault, you have to go with the T because, yes, "each head coach is ultimately responsible".

Can't agree at all with you.

What do you do,in the first case, when Coach A says "why isn't that a T, Ref?"? You have to be consistent, and you also have to call these situations by the rule book. Being "Mr Nice Guy" can get your a$$ in a sling, Mike, when you start making up your own rules. Yes, the officials should have caught it. No, the officials didn't catch it. Just make the proper call, and move on. Advantage/disadvantage was never meant to apply to situations like this.

The "each coach is ultimately responsible" theorem doesn't change if the situations happen to be slightly different. The bottom line is that team B had 6 players on the court, and that's a T. [/B]

I agree with Jurassic Ref on this one, there are two officials on the floor. I would bite the bullet on this one, its ours fault!