Why won't they call the intentional?

[Nevadaref]

As much as I dislike the NBA, you have a point about this.

[sj]

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

I think a lot of the problem that exists with whether or not to call an intentional foul exists because of the inheirant inconsistencies of the rule as well as the fact that there is no clearly defined criteria in the rulebook. For instance, we all agree that fouling to stop the clock is a legimate strategy, yet this is the essence of what an "intentional foul" is. A hard foul causing excessive contact is also ruled as intentional.

I think that this would be easier to call if we adopted the NBA's rules, replacing intentional fouls with Flagrant Penalty 1 and adopting the clear path foul and away from the play foul rules to cover the other aspects of the intentional foul. This would serve the purpose of making the game easier to officiate by allowing fouling at the end of the game as a legitimate strategy by rule, rather than by custom, and by clearly defining the types of infractions to call which make up the current intentional foul rule. Just my opinion, but I'd prefer the NBA system, or a modified version of it, compared to the current intentional foul rule.

I'd sure agree with that. Just tweak the rule to reflect the way it's being called concerning the strategic foul.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

I think a lot of the problem that exists with whether or not to call an intentional foul exists because of the inheirant inconsistencies of the rule as well as the fact that there is no clearly defined criteria in the rulebook. For instance, we all agree that fouling to stop the clock is a legimate strategy, yet this is the essence of what an "intentional foul" is. A hard foul causing excessive contact is also ruled as intentional.

I think that this would be easier to call if we adopted the NBA's rules, replacing intentional fouls with Flagrant Penalty 1 and adopting the clear path foul and away from the play foul rules to cover the other aspects of the intentional foul. This would serve the purpose of making the game easier to officiate by allowing fouling at the end of the game as a legitimate strategy by rule, rather than by custom, and by clearly defining the types of infractions to call which make up the current intentional foul rule. Just my opinion, but I'd prefer the NBA system, or a modified version of it, compared to the current intentional foul rule.

Finally, someone who has weighed in on this topic and not digress to petty insults. Very well stated and I agree. JR, you should take note here. Notice how this poster doesn't care about me or my name or my pseudo name. He focus on the topic. The same is true in officiating. Staying focus when all hell is breaking lose around you. One of my toughest straits, imo. You and the peanut gallery here, that is those that engage in character insults and not the issue, are like fans in my games. Man, do they go off when they don't get a call in there favor, and GOD only help me if I miss a call! I really thought this one guy was going to have a heart-attack the way he carried on about a 3-second lane violation I didn't call right at 3 seconds in a girls varsity game. Girls parents are the worse by far, imo. However, JR, the way you like to throw officials under the bus, you are a close 2nd. BTW, have you thrown any officials under the bus lately?

[MadCityRef]

I have taken to asking the coach of the trailing team if he's going to foul to stop the clock. That way I call the first hack and avoid escalation since we let a lot of contact go during the game. Problems occur in the late moments because too many of us let the small contact go waiting for something more. I've seen that create more hassles than it's worth. Call it early and avoid tempers flaring at the end.
Yes, when you see an intentional foul, call it. Every year, NF has this as a POE because we don't.
Years ago NCAA tried making all fouls in the final two minutes two shots to stop the hackfest at the end of games. It didn't work.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

I have taken to asking the coach of the trailing team if he's going to foul to stop the clock.

Good luck with that. Jmo, but one day, that's gonna come back and bite you in the butt- big time.

Just call what happens. Don't anticipate anything.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

I have taken to asking the coach of the trailing team if he's going to foul to stop the clock. That way I call the first hack and avoid escalation since we let a lot of contact go during the game. Problems occur in the late moments because too many of us let the small contact go waiting for something more.

Are you aware that your method is exactly the opposite of what the NFHS instructed officials to do in this year's POE?

2006-07 POINTS OF EMPHASIS

#5 Rules Enforcement and Proper Use of Signals.
The committee has seen a movement away from the consistent application of rule enforcement and use of approved mechanics/signals.
A. Rules Enforcement. Officials need to be aware that personal interpretations of the rules have a negative impact on the game. The rules are written to provide a balance between offense and defense, minimize risks to participants, promote the sound tradition of the game and promote fair play. Individual philosophies and deviations from the rules as written negatively impact the basic fundamentals and tenants of the rules. Officials must be consistent in the application of all rules, including:
• Contact – Contact that is not considered a foul early in the game should not be considered a foul late in the game simply because a team "wants" to foul. Conversely, contact that is deemed intentional late in the game should likewise be called intentional early in the game.
• Closely Guarded – Officials must properly judge the six-foot distance and begin a closely-guarded count when a defender obtains a legal guarding position. Failure to properly judge the six-foot distance and require the defender to be within three or four feet of the dribbler before beginning the closely-guarded count puts the defensive player in an unfair position. The count terminates when the dribbler gets head and shoulders past the defender.
• Coaching Box – In states that authorize the use of the optional coaching box, the head coach is the only person on the bench that is permitted to stand and must remain in the coaching box. All other bench personnel must remain seated at all times except when a team member is reporting to the scorer's table, during time-outs or intermissions, and to spontaneously react to a play.

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

I have taken to asking the coach of the trailing team if he's going to foul to stop the clock.

Wow, JR is right. I could see this going south fast. You should know enough to know when to anticipate this without asking the coach. Here's why:

"Coach, you guys gonna foul?"
"Yeah, we'll try."
B1 goes in and comes out with the ball for a steal. You blow the whistle when B1 got close. Coach goes ballistic.
"You're just calling it because I told you--it was a clean steal!"