The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 14, 2000, 12:14am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 94
Question

O.K., those of us familiar with NFHS rules are aware that the intentional foul is a point of emphasis this year. I'm interested in hearing from as many of you as possible as to how you would have handled this situation.

Team A is ahead by one point and has five team fouls. Team B is in possession of the basketball with 15 seconds left when the ball is defelected out of bounds off Team A. Team A takes a time out during the dead ball.

Well, as I'm checking the scoreclock, it's obvious that Team A has a foul to give and will foul Team B sometime after the ball has been inbounded. Well you can probably guess what happens. The ball is inbounded by Team B and the Team A coach yells foul! foul! and of course Team A fouls Team B. The foul was not a "wrapping" or "grabbing" or "shoving" or "holding" foul, but an honest attempt at the ball and in no way was the foul either aggressive or excessive. BUT, as a point of emphasis, we are supposed to wring up an intentional foul when we hear a coach or player say, "we're going to foul".

So, as I go to report the foul, the Team B coach is immediately working me for an intentional foul call. My response was, "not in that instance coach." I know I heard the Team A coach yell foul, but I most certainly would have "honestly" denied hearing it had the coach of Team B questioned me on it.

Oh, Team B inbounded and missed the final shot. I'm just curious to know how all of you would have handled this situation.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 14, 2000, 01:17am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 27
Hmmm. Conflicting situations here. Yes, they're yelling "foul," but if what you see is an "honest attempt at the ball," I'm inclined to call it a common foul as you did...I guess depending on the severity of the contact, which, as I take it from your description, wasn't bad.

The way I see it, the actual act takes precedence over what the coach yells. Maybe the player didn't hear his coach!

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 14, 2000, 01:56am
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Exclamation

If you're going to call it that way, you'd better be sure everyone in your association has agreed to do the same, or else there will be lots of "bad stuff" coming down.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 14, 2000, 02:21am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
This didn't happen to me but I heard about it:

The coach asked the ref ahead of time about late-game fouls and how the point of emphasis "was being handled". The ref told the coach that they were trying to call the intentionals, but not the "strategic" fouls. The ref felt this was good language since it is the wording in the book. Sure enough, near the end of the game with a close score, the ref heard that coach yelling at the girls, "Strategize! Strategize!"
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 14, 2000, 08:17am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,051
If the kid was making an honest effort, and we all know the diff, then don't call the intentional. POE or not, we need to use common sense, it sounds like this was not an intentional foul.

Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 14, 2000, 09:58am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Greater Indianapolis Area
Posts: 436
Send a message via Yahoo to Indy_Ref
Thumbs up

I also believe in using common sense in this situation...as Watson says, POE or not. However, I DO include it in my pregame meeting. I tell each coach to come up with any other code name except "FOUL!"
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 14, 2000, 10:50am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 142
Sounds to me like pirate made a good call.

As a coach, I call "BALL!" if I want my players to foul. I explain to them at practice that they should be making an honest effort for the ball even in a strategic foul situation. The upside is that sometimes they really do get the ball....
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 14, 2000, 11:41am
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Thumbs up coach with brilliant code words

Just last night, in obvious fouling situations, I had a coach yell "Go for the ball" over and over and over and over. Apparently that meant foul, but make an attempt on the ball so you won't get called for the intentional.

It worked really well, and they actually wound up winning the game.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 14, 2000, 12:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,220
I had a problem of players trying to foul, not getting the ball and not having a foul called. They look at the ref wanting a foul called while the other team runs down the court and scores. (kinda funny - kids looking at a ref and saying "hey, I fouled him!) I learned to coach them to get the ball and force the ref to make a decision. We either get the ball with no foul, which happens more than you might believe, or we get the foul that we needed. So when I yell get the ball, my players know that they are to do everything they can to get the ball, including foul. Prevents them from just grabbing, and we get what we want.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 14, 2000, 12:57pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 34
Send a message via ICQ to kevin
Thumbs up

We talked about this last night in our weekly meeting. What if the coach is telling his players to foul, foul, foul, and the player actually makes a good play on the ball and steals it? I am not going to call an intentional foul nor any foul but let them play on. I think you just have to use good judgement on this.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 14, 2000, 04:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 237
Thumbs up intentional foul

---------------------------------------------------------
The ball is inbounded by Team B and the Team A coach yells foul! foul! and of course Team A fouls Team B. The foul was not a "wrapping" or "grabbing" or "shoving" or "holding" foul, but an honest attempt at the ball and in no way was the foul either aggressive or excessive.
------------------------------------------------------------
Let me say first of all that I think you made the right call. But let me throw this out for your thoughts.

The problem is with the coach yelling "FOUL, FOUL".

If a player comes up to me after a time out and says, "Ref, I'm gonna foul #23", and then he/she fouls #23, I think that would constitute an intentional foul since the player announced that he/she INTENDED to commit the foul. In the same way the coach was announcing that he intended for his team to commit the foul.

Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 14, 2000, 04:33pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 335
Re: intentional foul

Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Burns
---------------------------------------------------------

The problem is with the coach yelling "FOUL, FOUL".

If a player comes up to me after a time out and says, "Ref, I'm gonna foul #23", and then he/she fouls #23, I think that would constitute an intentional foul since the player announced that he/she INTENDED to commit the foul. In the same way the coach was announcing that he intended for his team to commit the foul.

What if #23 is careless with the ball or a bad pass is made, and the defender has a legit steal opportunity? Will you then be quick with the whistle when there is minimal contact just because of the pre-announced intent? More importantly, would contact meriting a foul call be intentional?! I hope not.

Similar to coaches or player who say, "I want a Time out if we score basket". You can be aware, but they still have to request.

Let the play dictate what you call, not predeterminants. Goofy stuff happens at the end of games.



[Edited by pizanno on Dec 14th, 2000 at 03:36 PM]
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:10am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1