Wild ending -- video review -- MN-SDSU women

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

From that one angle and with no slo-mo, it looked good to me, but obviously it wasn't that easy. Great piece of video and thought-provoking.

So, with no video, if there's a light, we use the light to determine if the shot is good. If there's no light, then it's the horn.

With video, if we can see the clock, then the clock determines if it's good. If we can't see the clock, then the red light is used. If there's no light, then we listen for the horn on the tape.

Right?

I think that's right, but only if the clock that is shown is the "real" clock or is syncronized with the "real" clock. Sometimes (many times?) the clock on the screen is not official, so the light is used.

[TriggerMN]

Bob makes a good point. During many of the past Final Fours, a clock in the lower corner of the screen may say 54.8, for instance, but the clock in the upper deck behind the hoop view may say 55.3, so they are not exactly synched up.

The question remains, though, why did all 3 officials allow the entire SDSU coaching staff to look over their shoulders during the review process? It is obvious that the crew allowed the SDSU coach to get them to change their call after reviewing video.

The rules state that coaches may not use video on the floor to aid in coaching. Perhaps they need to amend that rule to say that coaches also cannot use video on the floor to officiate!

There is also the fact that because of the call being overturned, it is obvious that the crew misinterpreted the rule somehow, at some point. I would not be surprised to see a one game suspension for all.

[rockyroad]

I agree that it is tough to make a ruling from the video shown...and I agree that the crew is probably in some hot water over this...no way in hell should they have let the SDSU coaches be there watching the video with them and pointing things out...THEN one official clearly signals no basket and in the pool reporter report one of the crew says "I'm not sure we ever did that"...then when the Minnesota coach comes over and starts questioning what's going on, the woman official is clearly seen giving that coach the back-off movement with the arms and MN coach points at SDSU coach and THAT'S when they finally make that coach move away from them...wow.

At this point, as far as them being in trouble - it doesn't really matter if they got the call right...they messed up the review process quite badly and that's what they should be reprimanded for...

[BEAREF]

"The officials determined from replays and the rule book that the basket counted because the ball left Boever's hand before the backboard LED lights glowed red, even if it appeared to still be in her hand when the scoreboard clock read 0.0 an instant before.

"The lights are the determining factor," said official John Morningstar, removing a rule book from his bag. "It was the closest play I've ever seen."

Big Ten women's basketball coordinator of officials Patty Broderick requested a copy of the tape and she will investigate to determine whether the rule book was followed correctly. The officials applied one part of Rule 5, Section 7, but apparently did not consider a provision that states the scoreboard clock is the determining factor in games when there is a clock that measures tenths of a second and a courtside monitor is available.

"We want to make sure we absolutely get it right," Broderick said, acknowledging the game's outcome won't change either way but suggesting disciplinary action if the officials erred."

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BEAREF

"The lights are the determining factor," said official John Morningstar, removing a rule book from his bag. "It was the closest play I've ever seen."

Perhaps now he will actually open the book and read it instead of just keeping it in his bag.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Perhaps now he will actually open the book and read it instead of just keeping it in his bag.

The point of my question earlier about what replay was shown was to find out if he was right. You or I cannot say that he is or is not correct, because we do not know which angle they looked at in the replay.

In games without a courtside monitor, the lights are the first indicator of the end of the period. In this case, with a courtside monitor available, if they cannot see the clock in the monitor, the lights are also used to signal the end of the game. In womens_hoops' post, (s)he mentioned in two of the three angles they could not view the clock. So, it is entirely possible John was correct in his statement, if the view they had in the monitor did not show the clock.

My point is - don't be too quick in putting him down for his statement, because he could very well be correct. Given his officiating resume, and the number of televised games he's done, I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

The point of my question earlier about what replay was shown was to find out if he was right. You or I cannot say that he is or is not correct, because we do not know which angle they looked at in the replay.

In games without a courtside monitor, the lights are the first indicator of the end of the period. In this case, with a courtside monitor available, if they cannot see the clock in the monitor, the lights are also used to signal the end of the game. In womens_hoops' post, (s)he mentioned in two of the three angles they could not view the clock. So, it is entirely possible John was correct in his statement, if the view they had in the monitor did not show the clock.

My point is - don't be too quick in putting him down for his statement, because he could very well be correct. Given his officiating resume, and the number of televised games he's done, I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

And I would agree with you on that point, Jim...but hopefully you will agree with me (and others) who have said that the crew botched things by allowing the SDSU coach to kneel there with them and point things out to them, only to shoo away the MN coach when she came over...and also I would hope you would agree that the crew botched it when the official stood up and clearly signalled no basket, only to go back and watch some more and then count the basket and claim in the postgame report that they never signalled no basket...

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

My point is - don't be too quick in putting him down for his statement, because he could very well be correct. Given his officiating resume, and the number of televised games he's done, I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Hey M&M,
http://www.gophersports.com/ViewArti...&ATCLID=748869

The Women’s Basketball Officiating Consortium has acknowledged a misapplication of a rule that incorrectly counted a last-second basket giving South Dakota State a 59-58 victory over Minnesota on Sunday, Jan. 14.
...
“That was the ruling that we misapplied,” said Patty Broderick, the Coordinator of Officials for the WBOC. “With 00.0 on the game clock, the ball is absolutely in the South Dakota State player’s hand and that is what determines whether a shot is good or not good in regards to reviewing a play at the end of a game on a monitor.”
...
“When the officials leave the court, they have approved the score. But, the NCAA is aware the officials misapplied a rule and there is corrective action being taken against them. They are being disciplined for misapplying the rule.”
...
“All I can tell you is that the officials have been disciplined,” added Broderick. “In my opinion the penalty suits the misapplication of the rule.”



I stand by my original criticism. He got the rule wrong.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

...then when the Minnesota coach comes over and starts questioning what's going on, the woman official is clearly seen giving that coach the back-off movement with the arms and MN coach points at SDSU coach and THAT'S when they finally make that coach move away from them...wow.

Did you mean to say "giving the coach the stop sign"?

[bigdogrunnin]

No, it looks more like the "coach, please don't come any closer, because I think we are about to REALLY screw this up, and we don't want anyone within ear shot to hear us while we come up with a REALLY LAME excuse for not disallowing the goal and walking off the court," sign.

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by bigdogrunnin

No, it looks more like the "coach, please don't come any closer, because I think we are about to REALLY screw this up, and we don't want anyone within ear shot to hear us while we come up with a REALLY LAME excuse for not disallowing the goal and walking off the court," sign.

That's the double stop sign.

[buckrog64]

The crew didn't help themselves when he waved off the points and then looked again at the replay. You think they delayed their decision long enough for security to arrive and escort them off the court? Nah! What if she misses the shot but gets fouled on the play? The foul came after the horn/light?

[tnroundballref]

I think this crew did not do a very good job at handling the replay. Letting a coach influence a decision after a ruling had been made looks really BAD.