Wild ending -- video review -- MN-SDSU women

[buckrog64]

The crew didn't help themselves when he waved off the points and then looked again at the replay. You think they delayed their decision long enough for security to arrive and escort them off the court? Nah! What if she misses the shot but gets fouled on the play? The foul came after the horn/light?

[All_Heart]

Originally Posted by buckrog64

The crew didn't help themselves when he waved off the points and then looked again at the replay. You think they delayed their decision long enough for security to arrive and escort them off the court? Nah! What if she misses the shot but gets fouled on the play? The foul came after the horn/light?

If she is fouled on the play before time expires then the player is awarded 2 free throws. If it's after time expires then it is ignored unless it is intentional or flagrant.

[tnroundballref]

I think this crew did not do a very good job at handling the replay. Letting a coach influence a decision after a ruling had been made looks really BAD.

[womens_hoops]

some more video is available here. This is from the TV telecast, not the scout cam, so you can see the clock and shot a little more clearly.

http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S21263.html?cat=1

[Scrapper1]

Thanks for the new clip. Pretty easy to see from there that the ball was still in her hand at :00.0. Tough position for the refs. Looks like they went by the LED lights, instead of the clock above the backboard. So why weren't the lights sync'ed-up with the clock?

[womens_hoops]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

So why weren't the lights sync'ed-up with the clock?

I don't get that either. Apparently there is some lag time. The clock goes to 0.0, and it sends a signal to the horn and light, but sending that signal takes a split second.

In fact, that's why they changed the rule in 2004 to go by the clock rather than the light.

Originally Posted by NCAA

The rationale is that using the reading of 0.0 when it's visible on the monitor, which indicates that the game has ended, factors out the time lag that occurs when that reading sends an impulse that triggers the mechanisms in the light and the horn.

http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/story/7319659

[M&M Guy]

Which replays did the refs use on the floor? Did they access to the same view as the last clip? Or did they have some view that may not have shown the clock? I've always wondered what replays are actually available tableside in a situation like this, and who controls what is able to be viewed.

At least the MN coach said the right things in the article: "It wasn't so much a last-second play," said Borton. "It was the 16 turnovers in the first half, it was shooting 48 percent from the free-throw line. It was all those other things."

[OHBBREF]

It is the perception of the situation - even if you read what is being said here - that the final decision was influenced by the coach after they made their decision by reviewing the monitor.
I will presume they got the call right and that is important.
But in this case one official should have been moving the coach's away from the monitor - So that if they decide to step back and look at another angle - or review it again after talking to both coaches then it is their decision - not that of a coach pointing a the monitor saying "SEE SEE Your Wrong!". then going back and changing the call.

[womens_hoops]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Which replays did the refs use on the floor? Did they access to the same view as the last clip? Or did they have some view that may not have shown the clock?

that's a good question. I've seen three angles:

(1) the MN scout cam, from high center court. From this angle, you just can't tell.
(2) the sideline cam from the TV feed, where you can see the light, but only part of the clock. From this angle, it looks like she beat the light, but you can't see the clock.
(3) the far baseline angle from the TV feed, where you can see both. From this angle, you can see the ball in her hand at 0.0, but it looks like it's out by the time the light comes on.

I don't know which they had. Regardless, from postgame quotes in the original link posted, it sounds like Morningstar relied on the LED light rather than the clock.

[RookieDude]

A couple things:

1) I'm surprised no one here has discussed all three officials with their backs turned to the players and court. That's the thing that jumped out at me...even though the game was over, the officials still have jurisdiction...and a lot of things could have happened with no officials' "eyes on path".

2) So that's where Rod Simmons went (the reporter for the Ch. 5 MN news) He used to be a local boy here in Eastern Washington...then moved on to the Seattle area.

[BayStateRef]

Assume this game is played under high school rules. The throw-in with 3.5 seconds from the end-line is deflected out-of-bounds at the division line by the defense. Are we really going to give the ball back to the offense at the original throw-in spot -- with one second having run off the clock?

We had a long chat about this play a few weeks back: Rule Relapse - Please Help

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

Assume this game is played under high school rules. The throw-in with 3.5 seconds from the end-line is deflected out-of-bounds at the division line by the defense. Are we really going to give the ball back to the offense at the original throw-in spot -- with one second having run off the clock?

We had a long chat about this play a few weeks back: Rule Relapse - Please Help

Was the defense standing OOB, or did she knock the ball OOB?
If she was standing OOB, then do the throw in at the original spot with the original time on the clock. Time should not have run off. If she was standing inbounds but knocked it out, then new spot and time.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

Assume this game is played under high school rules. The throw-in with 3.5 seconds from the end-line is deflected out-of-bounds at the division line by the defense. Are we really going to give the ball back to the offense at the original throw-in spot -- with one second having run off the clock?

We had a long chat about this play a few weeks back: Rule Relapse - Please Help

Not me...divsion line throw-in by the original throw-in team.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

Assume this game is played under high school rules. The throw-in with 3.5 seconds from the end-line is deflected out-of-bounds at the division line by the defense. Are we really going to give the ball back to the offense at the original throw-in spot -- with one second having run off the clock?

We had a long chat about this play a few weeks back: Rule Relapse - Please Help

That is for a ball contacted by a player that is OOB, not a ball knocked out by a player inbounds...big difference.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Was the defense standing OOB, or did she knock the ball OOB?
If she was standing OOB, then do the throw in at the original spot with the original time on the clock. Time should not have run off. If she was standing inbounds but knocked it out, then new spot and time.

Oops...you are right. The defender is inbounds and knocks the pass OOB. Different scenario.