backcourt violation??

[Schmack42]

I did a search couldn't find an example.

Throw in by A1 in there Frontcourt...tips of A2 in the frontcourt and goes into the backcourt. A2 goes into the backcourt to secure the ball.


I would say A2 never gained team control after the throw in and no backcourt violation. Am I correct

Thanks,

Dave

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Schmack42

I did a search couldn't find an example.

Throw in by A1 in there Frontcourt...tips of A2 in the frontcourt and goes into the backcourt. A2 goes into the backcourt to secure the ball.


I would say A2 never gained team control after the throw in and no backcourt violation. Am I correct

Search the case book. Play 4.12.6(b) is the exact same play. Legal.

[blindofficial]

That is the right call. No control, no violation. "Control" being the key term. Good job!

[tjones1]

On the topic of team control, I heard an interesting comment during the varsity's pre-game after I did my game. They were talking about timeouts and stated that they need to make sure the team had team control before granting it. Of course, we know this isn't true, given the fact that team control remains during a loose ball (4-12-4)...be careful out there everyone!

[Ron Giacoma]

Originally Posted by Schmack42

I did a search couldn't find an example.

Throw in by A1 in there Frontcourt...tips of A2 in the frontcourt and goes into the backcourt. A2 goes into the backcourt to secure the ball.


I would say A2 never gained team control after the throw in and no backcourt violation. Am I correct

Thanks,

Dave

Based on what you said, A2 did gain control of the ball (team control and player control) but, only after the ball was in the backcourt. This of course is a Legal Play. The ball must be established in the frontcourt first,(frontcourt status) before going into the backcourt. This did not happen in this case. Keep in mind: When passing the ball from Out-of-Bounds, the location of the throw-in spot is not relavent to a backcourt violation (no control in the frontcourt). Here's the same thing as you described only the throw-in spot is in the backcourt: A1 is given a throw-in spot in front of visiting teams bench (his backcourt). A1 passes the ball to A2 in frontcourt. A2 tips or muffs the pass and it bounces into A's backcourt. A1 steps in bounds and picks up ball. This is Legal and it gets called a backcourt violation more often than not. The fun part is when you do not call it (and you got it right) and the coach behind you goes NUTS !!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ron Giacoma

This is Legal and it gets called a backcourt violation more often than not.

Officials screw up that call better than half the time?

I disagree completely with that statement. I'm guessing, same as you did, but I'd say that it gets called correctly the great majority of the time, probably better than 90%. It's a simple and easy call and it's a staple in most training programs for newbies. It's been on the exam many times and most officials would never get that one wrong.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Ron Giacoma

........ The ball must be established in the frontcourt first,(frontcourt status) before going into the backcourt. This did not happen in this case........

Uh..... actually it did. Be careful here Ron. Location of the ball is established by where it touches, and since A2 was in front court when it was tipped, the ball did achieve front court status. What was missing in both the original example and yours is the key element of team control.

In NFHS there is no team control duriing a throw in by rule, so it first must be established by a player establishing player control. The sequence is team control, last touched in front court by team with control, first touched in backcourt by same team. Also note that the control doesn't have to be established in front court and there does not have to be player control in front court for a back court violation to occur.

Agree with JR....I see this called correctly better than 90% of the time.

[Adam]

Player control must be established, or the ball must be at the disposal of the thrower for a throwin, or the ball must be dead. But you knew that.