Double Violation?

[Johnny Ringo]

A1 is attempting a free throw. The ball is released and B1 goes into the lane before the ball hits the rim. Violation.

However, the try is an airball, coming up short and touching nothing. Also a viloation.

Official calls this a double violation. It was the second of two free throws. He awrads the ball to team B for a throw in.

Is this correct?

[JRutledge]

Who knows? Which way was the arrow pointing?

Peace

[Johnny Ringo]

He said it was POI and B ball because the violations cancelled out.

This has to be wrong in some way shape or form. If B1 commits a lane violation - does it really matter if the try is an airball?

Shouldn't this simply be lane violation on B1 and re-shoot the free throw?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

He said it was POI and B ball because the violations cancelled out.

Well when you put it that way, of course it is wrong. POI only involves fouls under NF Rules (double fouls at that).

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

This has to be wrong in some way shape or form. If B1 commits a lane violation - does it really matter if the try is an airball?

Yes it does matter. I am sure someone will come along with a casebook play, but it is always a violation for A to miss the rim on a FT attempt, unless you judge the B violation as some kind of disconcertion.

Peace

[Johnny Ringo]

Thanks!
I am really interested to see what some the good refs in here say. I especially want to hear NevadaRef's take on this.
It seems to me that B1's lane violation is the one you have to assert.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Thanks!
I am really interested to see what some the good refs in here say. I especially want to hear NevadaRef's take on this.
It seems to me that B1's lane violation is the one you have to assert.

Forget what we say, what do the rules say? The rules are what dictate this situation, not our opinions. I am just sharing you what the rules state and if you look at them it will confirm my answer. I am also sure that Nevada will come up with the entire rule if you cannot look it up yourself.

Peace

[rainmaker]

Rule Book 9.1 Penalty section 3 and 4(b).

Use the arrow.

[Johnny Ringo]

Thanks Rainmaker. I looked it up and clearly did not know that! Jrutledge, I was wanting the rule ... what I was trying to say was I wanted to see what the good officials in here have to say because I respect what their posts. I could not find it previously!

[JRutledge]

Johnny,

I was having a little fun with you. You are here to learn, if I was newer I would have had a similar question.

Peace

[Adam]

Nevadaref would be flattered, but I'm sure he'll point you to the same rule that Juulie directs you to. It's pretty clear; unless you seriously think B1 disconcerted the shooter, it's a double violation. Resume play with either the next free throw (if there is one) or go to the arrow.
Case play 9.1.6B.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Nevadaref would be flattered, but I'm sure he'll point you to the same rule that Juulie directs you to. It's pretty clear; unless you seriously think B1 disconcerted the shooter, it's a double violation. Resume play with either the next free throw (if there is one) or go to the arrow.
Case play 9.1.6B.

I am and I will.
Juulie and Adam have directed you properly. Besides posting the text of the case book play for you, all that I can add is my comment that if B1 stepped into the lane BEFORE A1 released the try, I would strongly consider disconcertion as the case book play advises. On the other hand, if A1 has already released the try when B1 steps in prior to the ball hitting the ring or backboard, then I would definitely go with the double violation on the airball and use the AP arrow. I don't think that calling disconcertion after the try is released would make sense.

9.1.6 SITUATION A: While A1 is attempting a final free throw, (a) B1 enters the lane too soon followed by A2, both of whom are in marked lane spaces; or (b) B1, in a marked lane space enters the lane too soon, then shooter A1 steps on the free-throw line while releasing the throw. RULING: In (a), if the try is successful, the goal shall count and the violation shall be ignored. If the try is unsuccessful, the ball shall become dead when the free throw ends and a substitute free throw shall be attempted by A1 under the same conditions as those for the original free throw. In (b), a double violation is called and the ball is put in play using the alternating-possession procedure. COMMENT: Anytime the defense violates first, followed by a violation by the free-throw shooter, the officials should consider the possibility of disconcertion. (9-1 Penalty)

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

POI only involves fouls under NF Rules (double fouls at that).

POI is also used for inadvertant whistles, suspended games, and some correctable errors.

[crazy voyager]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

A1 is attempting a free throw. The ball is released and B1 goes into the lane before the ball hits the rim. Violation.

However, the try is an airball, coming up short and touching nothing. Also a viloation.

Official calls this a double violation. It was the second of two free throws. He awrads the ball to team B for a throw in.

Is this correct?

Now I'm going with fiba rules as usuall.

When the shooter commits the violation you ignore any violations by the other players, so this would be B ball at the FT extended. Is that right?

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by crazy voyager

Now I'm going with fiba rules as usual.

When the shooter commits the violation you ignore any violations by the other players, so this would be B ball at the FT extended. Is that right?

Except when the violation by the defensive team is judged to have disconcerted the thrower. For example, if a defensive player enters the lane much earlier than the shot. 43.3.1 states that the violations of the other players are disregarded if they occur immediately before, at the same time as, or after the violation by the thrower.

Ciao