Swinging Elbows: Violation or Foul?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Some coaches teach to chin and pivot as specified in rules reference below. You're gonna lose a game check when we bet on this one...


Rule 4 SECTION 13 EXCESSIVE SWINGING OF ARM(S)/ELBOW(S)
ART. 1 . . . A player shall not excessively swing his/her arms(s) or elbow(s), even without contacting an opponent.
ART. 2 . . . A player may extend arm(s) or elbow(s) to hold the ball under the chin or against the body.
ART. 3 . . . Action of arm(s) and elbow(s) resulting from total body movements as in pivoting or movement of the ball incidental to feinting with it, releasing it, or moving it to prevent a held ball or loss of control shall not be considered excessive.

You're trying to apply NCAA rules to a discussion of NFHS situations.

S rule 4-24-8
It is not legal to swing arms and elbows excessively. This occurs when:
a) Arms and elbows are swung while using the shoulders as a pivot, and the speed of the extended arms and elbose is in excess of the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or pivot foot.
b) the aggressiveness with which the arms and elbows are swung could cause injury to another player if contacted.

You might serve a suspension if you try to argue a rule using a ruleset that doesn't apply. Would that cost you a game check?

[justacoach]

Quote:

Originally Posted by justacoach
Some coaches teach to chin and pivot as specified in rules reference below. You're gonna lose a game check when we bet on this one...


Rule 4 SECTION 13 EXCESSIVE SWINGING OF ARM(S)/ELBOW(S)
ART. 1 . . . A player shall not excessively swing his/her arms(s) or elbow(s), even without contacting an opponent.
ART. 2 . . . A player may extend arm(s) or elbow(s) to hold the ball under the chin or against the body.
ART. 3 . . . Action of arm(s) and elbow(s) resulting from total body movements as in pivoting or movement of the ball incidental to feinting with it, releasing it, or moving it to prevent a held ball or loss of control shall not be considered excessive.

You're trying to apply NCAA rules to a discussion of NFHS situations.

S rule 4-24-8
It is not legal to swing arms and elbows excessively. This occurs when:
a) Arms and elbows are swung while using the shoulders as a pivot, and the speed of the extended arms and elbose is in excess of the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or pivot foot.
b) the aggressiveness with which the arms and elbows are swung could cause injury to another player if contacted.

You might serve a suspension if you try to argue a rule using a ruleset that doesn't apply. Would that cost you a game check?

+++++++++++++++++++

JR:
If you'll recall, my original post was a response to Refdaddy's fatuous comment as follows...
"
Coach's teach to clear a rebound by clearing out. Elbows are involved. In my games they better stay down and tight."

My original quote above is taken directly from the 2006-2007 NFHS Rules Book...

Look it up!!!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Rule 4 SECTION 13 EXCESSIVE SWINGING OF ARM(S)/ELBOW(S)


My original quote above is taken directly from the 2006-2007 NFHS Rules Book...

Look it up!!!!

I did. It ain't in there. Rule 4-13 refers to court areas. There's nothing about elbows anywhere in there. I cited and quoted the applicable NFHS rules re: elbows to you. May I suggest that you look it up. Might save you a game check.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I did. It ain't in there. Rule 4-13 refers to court areas. There's nothing about elbows anywhere in there. I cited and quoted the applicable NFHS rules re: elbows to you. May I suggest that you look it up. Might save you a game check.

My bad... Rule 9-13 is the applicable text (smiley implied)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by justacoach

My bad... Rule 9-13 is the applicable text (smiley implied)

Yup, and 9-13 is in a section called "VIOLATIONS". Rule 4-24-8 still gives us direction, as do other sections in the rules also, which includes R4-23-1 which says "Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets their first without illegally contacting an opponent". That's the guiding principle. W&S, Tim Taylor, Camron Rust et al have already told you what officials look for and how they call it. They are correct. Again, if one of your players pivots into a defender and whacks him with an elbow, I wouldn't protest too much if the foul was called on him/her. You might lose your game check.