How Long do you hold your stop sign?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

"...no matter how bad he is behaving, if you are going to T a coach, always wait until his team has the ball. It just adds a little more insult to the situation. I had never really thought about it, but that is a good idea."

Not vindictive?

Two thoughts...
1)"adding insult to the situation" is not something we need to be doing. No matter what the coaches do or say, we MUST be professional at all times (or at least try to be). So as Dan and JR have said - if he/she earns it, give it. Don't wait...

2)The Stop sign is a very "public" thing...everyone in the gym sees it. It might work if the coach is smart and able to control his/her emotions...it might backfire because the emotional coach will consider it as you "showing him/her up" and then really go bonkers on you...either way, once you have done something that visible and public, you have painted yourself into a corner - now the next outburst must be T'd or you lose credibility with both benches..."He gave the big stop sign, but didn't T them?? What can I get away with??"

I have found that a calm, verbal warning to the coach is much better...nobody hears it but the ones it is directed to and it doesn't become a public thing...if the other coach says something about his opponents behavior, a simple "It's been addressed, coach" is all that is needed...still leaves you with options for later in the game. JMHO, for whatever it's worth...

[Chess Ref]

[QUOTE=rockyroad]
2)The Stop sign is a very "public" thing...everyone in the gym sees it. It might work if the coach is smart and able to control his/her emotions...it might backfire because the emotional coach will consider it as you "showing him/her up" and then really go bonkers on you...either way, once you have done something that visible and public, you have painted yourself into a corner - now the next outburst must be T'd or you lose credibility with both benches..."He gave the big stop sign, but didn't T them?? What can I get away with??"

I don't agree. By being public the coach has painted himself into a corner. If the coach is at the point of a stop sign with me he has been persistently a pain in the a$$ and I probably have cut him too much slack already. He has undoubtly earned his Technical foul....I also work the sub varsity circuit where coaches come and go. My experience is 50% have no clue on how to deal with officials. Maybe I'll change my philosophy if and when I start doing varsity level.

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Two thoughts...
1)"adding insult to the situation" is not something we need to be doing. No matter what the coaches do or say, we MUST be professional at all times (or at least try to be). So as Dan and JR have said - if he/she earns it, give it. Don't wait...

2)The Stop sign is a very "public" thing...everyone in the gym sees it. It might work if the coach is smart and able to control his/her emotions...it might backfire because the emotional coach will consider it as you "showing him/her up" and then really go bonkers on you...either way, once you have done something that visible and public, you have painted yourself into a corner - now the next outburst must be T'd or you lose credibility with both benches..."He gave the big stop sign, but didn't T them?? What can I get away with??"

I have found that a calm, verbal warning to the coach is much better...nobody hears it but the ones it is directed to and it doesn't become a public thing...if the other coach says something about his opponents behavior, a simple "It's been addressed, coach" is all that is needed...still leaves you with options for later in the game. JMHO, for whatever it's worth...

Rocky,

Around here, the stop sign is used to communicate with your partners as well as the caoch. The logic is that a coach does not need a warning from each uninformed official. When I see my partners stop sign, it carries the same weight as if I had given it. Your partners probably won't see your calm verbal warning. Then, when they get near the coach, they may feel obligated to give their calm verbal warning. The public display eliminates this redundancy.

Mulk

[Junker]

Personally when I do give the stop sign, I make sure it is seen. I won't say I never try to talk to coaches when they're irate, but if I warn a coach I want it known. Then when you to take care of business everyone knew it was coming. You just have to make sure to take care of business after the warning is given.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Rocky,

Around here, the stop sign is used to communicate with your partners as well as the caoch. The logic is that a coach does not need a warning from each uninformed official. When I see my partners stop sign, it carries the same weight as if I had given it. Your partners probably won't see your calm verbal warning. Then, when they get near the coach, they may feel obligated to give their calm verbal warning. The public display eliminates this redundancy.

Mulk

You can talk to your partners about your warning. Also there is not a guarantee that your partners saw your stop sign.

Peace

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You can talk to your partners about your warning. Also there is not a guarantee that your partners saw your stop sign.

Peace

Rut,

Which goes back to the original question - how long do you hold your stop sign. Long enough for my partners to see it. Which, is why we give it around here? I'm not going to worry too much about hurting a bickering coach's feelings.

Anyway, how do you let your partners know?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Rut,

Which goes back to the original question - how long do you hold your stop sign. Long enough for my partners to see it. Which, is why we give it around here? I'm not going to worry too much about hurting a bickering coach's feelings.

I did not say you cared about whether you hurt the feelings of a coach. But if you "show them up" you might have made a minor situation into a big fire. Now something that could have been solved with a quite word not put you in a no-win situation where no matter what you do it will likely be wrong. As Tomegun has said, many times it does not prevent anything when you give that signal. You end up giving a T anyway if you just read these stories about the "stop sign."

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Anyway, how do you let your partners know?

How do you let your partner know anything? You go up to them and tell them. You wait for a dead ball and you tell them. Timeouts, FT situations, an extended delay, walking buy a partner after a foul you tell them. You do talk to your partners during the game about other things don't you?

Peace

[tomegun]

Yeah, there is nothing like talking to your partners to let them know something. It amazes me how so many people preach about communication and then can't automatically realize that talking to your partners is a form of communication. Another reason why I don't like the stop sign; like other things, it is a substitute for that good old-fashioned voice.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Yeah, there is nothing like talking to your partners to let them know something. It amazes me how so many people preach about communication and then can't automatically realize that talking to your partners is a form of communication. Another reason why I don't like the stop sign; like other things, it is a substitute for that good old-fashioned voice.

Yup.

Peace

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Yeah, there is nothing like talking to your partners to let them know something. It amazes me how so many people preach about communication and then can't automatically realize that talking to your partners is a form of communication. Another reason why I don't like the stop sign; like other things, it is a substitute for that good old-fashioned voice.

You have to be next to a coach to calmly give him his warning don't you? If you are next to the coach and your partners aren't, how do you talk to your partners? I can't automatically understand how you can use your good old-fashioned voice across the floor and not show the coach up. If you do it at an appropriate or later non-insulting time, has it ever been too late?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Rocky,

Around here, the stop sign is used to communicate with your partners as well as the caoch. The logic is that a coach does not need a warning from each uninformed official. When I see my partners stop sign, it carries the same weight as if I had given it. Your partners probably won't see your calm verbal warning. Then, when they get near the coach, they may feel obligated to give their calm verbal warning. The public display eliminates this redundancy.

Mulk

If I give a warning to the coach, my partners will know - I will let them know...and I agree with the logic about not needing a warning from each official. But I think you missed my point - the stop sign is a public display and - agree or not- many coaches take that as you "showing them up"...a calm "Coach, that's enough. This is your official warning" works much better than a stop sign and is much better communication...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

But I think you missed my point - the stop sign is a public display and - agree or not- many coaches take that as you "showing them up"...a calm "Coach, that's enough. This is your official warning" works much better than a stop sign and is much better communication...

I completely agree.

Peace

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If I give a warning to the coach, my partners will know - I will let them know...and I agree with the logic about not needing a warning from each official. But I think you missed my point - the stop sign is a public display and - agree or not- many coaches take that as you "showing them up"...a calm "Coach, that's enough. This is your official warning" works much better than a stop sign and is much better communication...

Rocky,

I like what you are saying. But how do you "let your partners know"? Is there some private less insulting signal that you use among the officials? Do you tell them at the next dead ball? Halftime? Did the coach ever do something before you got around to letting them know? Do you ever wish you had already told them about your calm warning as the coach is jawing at your partner a few seconds later?

I'm not disagreeing - just trying to understand how you are communicating this while the game is going on?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If I give a warning to the coach, my partners will know - I will let them know...and I agree with the logic about not needing a warning from each official. But I think you missed my point - the stop sign is a public display and - agree or not- many coaches take that as you "showing them up"...a calm "Coach, that's enough. This is your official warning" works much better than a stop sign and is much better communication...

OTOH, some official's coordinators / assigners want the stop sign so that it shows up on the tape. I've used the stop sign, and I've not used the stop sign, according to what felt right during any particular situation.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

OTOH, some official's coordinators / assigners want the stop sign so that it shows up on the tape. I've used the stop sign, and I've not used the stop sign, according to what felt right during any particular situation.

My public disdain for the stop sign does not include the example above. I just don't like the robotic use of the stop sign like it is number 2 in a procedure that must be followed every time.