When can the C make an over and back call?

[iref4him]

I am working on a 3-man crew. I am the C and the ball is in my primary just above the free throw circle extended. A1 is dribbling the ball with lots of pressure from B1. The ball deflects off of B1's foot and then goes off A1's foot into the back court. (THE BALL WAS IN MY PRIMARY). A1 goes to get the ball in the backcourt. I whistle the over and back. The T comes over and explains to me that over and back is his call to make and he did not see the ball go off of A1. He wants to give the ball back to A. I asked him where he was looking? I thought the ball was in my primary. He said it was, but he has the responsibility and it is his primary to call over and back. I said I am not going to argue with you, but the ball was in my primary and it did go off of A1 last. He then invoked the I am the Referee for this game, it's A's ball. I believe C can make an O&B call. Does anyone else?? Or am I mistaken.

(By the way, we gave the ball back to A and discussed the situation at halftime. He wouldn't back down from his position. I had a whole another half to work and did not want any animosity on the floor.)

[SeanFitzRef]

It is the T's call, but if you have information for him that will help him make the call, give it to him/her and keep going. Then discuss at next deadball break or halftime.

[Jurassic Referee]

You have the best look on the "last touched by". Once you've made the call, all bets are off anyway, no matter who calls it. The T can't overrule you. Whether he is the R or not has no significance either. Once you've made the call, only you can change it.

[Junker]

Good call by you. You had definite knowledge that the ball was off A so they should have not gotten the ball back. Sometimes the C has to take this because if you don't there won't be a stoppage of play to tell the T who the ball was last touched by. My only suggestion is to make sure you fade back with the play so you have a good look at the division line when you make the call. Obviously you won't be able to see over and back from your natural C position.

[Ref Daddy]

My answer - when you amke eye contact with the T and see where they are on it.

All officials need to get it right - balanced against assigned calls and areas of coverage.

Eye contact shows your T your aware of their existance - but if you haveclear and exact evidence - Make the Call.

[GoodwillRef]

This was a great call on your part, I would make the same call everytime.

Your Trail has an attitude problem that need adjusting.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by iref4him

I am working on a 3-man crew. I am the C and the ball is in my primary just above the free throw circle extended. A1 is dribbling the ball with lots of pressure from B1. The ball deflects off of B1's foot and then goes off A1's foot into the back court. (THE BALL WAS IN MY PRIMARY). A1 goes to get the ball in the backcourt. I whistle the over and back. The T comes over and explains to me that over and back is his call to make and he did not see the ball go off of A1. He wants to give the ball back to A. I asked him where he was looking? I thought the ball was in my primary. He said it was, but he has the responsibility and it is his primary to call over and back. I said I am not going to argue with you, but the ball was in my primary and it did go off of A1 last. He then invoked the I am the Referee for this game, it's A's ball. I believe C can make an O&B call. Does anyone else?? Or am I mistaken.

(By the way, we gave the ball back to A and discussed the situation at halftime. He wouldn't back down from his position. I had a whole another half to work and did not want any animosity on the floor.)

The referee tosses the ball. It doesn't give him the right to overturn your call.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Junker

Good call by you. You had definite knowledge that the ball was off A so they should have not gotten the ball back. Sometimes the C has to take this because if you don't there won't be a stoppage of play to tell the T who the ball was last touched by. My only suggestion is to make sure you fade back with the play so you have a good look at the division line when you make the call. Obviously you won't be able to see over and back from your natural C position.

You frequently have to help each other when a ball is tipped in someone else's primary. Big whoop, right?

Last week I had a ball roll out of bounds on my sideline (I was the lead, 2-person). I had a feeling it was tipped, but wasn't looking there as the ball was tipped outside my primary. So I got help. And life went on.

[Camron Rust]

Good call. I'd do it everytime. The call is only his when the entire play happens in his view. When a situation requires knowledge of action from two primaries to determine, then either official can (and should) call it....and usually, it the official who's primary it started in that will have all the information.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by iref4him

(By the way, we gave the ball back to A and discussed the situation at halftime. He wouldn't back down from his position. I had a whole another half to work and did not want any animosity on the floor.)

In a tough spot, you were the adult, and kept things flowing. Good job!

mick hasn't been around much lately, so I'll say it for him:

Get in
Get done
Get out.

[JRutledge]

If the ball started in your primary and all the action with the ball happen in your primary, the C better make the call when it is obvious. It would be very hard pressed for a T to make a call they did not see or did not know why something happen. The T has this as their primary, but that does not mean that the C never can make this call.

Another situation that would be common for the C to make a call is when the ball is near half court on a press or trap, if the ball handler steps on the line or near the line (on the C's side especially), I do not expect the T to look through bodies and make this call.

Peace

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

You frequently have to help each other when a ball is tipped in someone else's primary. Big whoop, right?

Last week I had a ball roll out of bounds on my sideline (I was the lead, 2-person). I had a feeling it was tipped, but wasn't looking there as the ball was tipped outside my primary. So I got help. And life went on.

Well said. That's the point I was trying to get across.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by iref4him

I am working on a 3-man crew. I am the C and the ball is in my primary just above the free throw circle extended. A1 is dribbling the ball with lots of pressure from B1. The ball deflects off of B1's foot and then goes off A1's foot into the back court. (THE BALL WAS IN MY PRIMARY). A1 goes to get the ball in the backcourt. I whistle the over and back. The T comes over and explains to me that over and back is his call to make and he did not see the ball go off of A1. He wants to give the ball back to A. I asked him where he was looking? I thought the ball was in my primary. He said it was, but he has the responsibility and it is his primary to call over and back. I said I am not going to argue with you, but the ball was in my primary and it did go off of A1 last. He then invoked the I am the Referee for this game, it's A's ball. I believe C can make an O&B call. Does anyone else?? Or am I mistaken.

(By the way, we gave the ball back to A and discussed the situation at halftime. He wouldn't back down from his position. I had a whole another half to work and did not want any animosity on the floor.)

I have no problem with you making this call in your primary. The T should have just left it alone.

If I am visualizing this correctly (and there was at least 2 more players on your side of the floor), the lead should have been in the process of rotating to give you help on the ball side anyway (which would have meant that you were becoming the T and your overbearing T should have been becoming the C anyway).

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If the ball started in your primary and all the action with the ball happen in your primary, the C better make the call when it is obvious. It would be very hard pressed for a T to make a call they did not see or did not know why something happen. The T has this as their primary, but that does not mean that the C never can make this call.

Another situation that would be common for the C to make a call is when the ball is near half court on a press or trap, if the ball handler steps on the line or near the line (on the C's side especially), I do not expect the T to look through bodies and make this call.

Peace

JRut,

This is a great point, the "C" can't run away when we have trap at the division line.

[ocreferee]

Originally Posted by iref4him

I am working on a 3-man crew. I am the C and the ball is in my primary just above the free throw circle extended. A1 is dribbling the ball with lots of pressure from B1. The ball deflects off of B1's foot and then goes off A1's foot into the back court. (THE BALL WAS IN MY PRIMARY). A1 goes to get the ball in the backcourt. I whistle the over and back. The T comes over and explains to me that over and back is his call to make and he did not see the ball go off of A1. He wants to give the ball back to A. I asked him where he was looking? I thought the ball was in my primary. He said it was, but he has the responsibility and it is his primary to call over and back. I said I am not going to argue with you, but the ball was in my primary and it did go off of A1 last. He then invoked the I am the Referee for this game, it's A's ball. I believe C can make an O&B call. Does anyone else?? Or am I mistaken.

(By the way, we gave the ball back to A and discussed the situation at halftime. He wouldn't back down from his position. I had a whole another half to work and did not want any animosity on the floor.)

You made the right call, it was in your primary. I made an over and back call from the same position (C) last night as the ball was quickly passed across the division line and then the player decided to pass it back to the guard in the backcourt (all within 5 feet of my sideline).

We discussed it at halftime and the entire crew was happy with the double whistle we ended up having.