You make the call. Over and back - or not?

Mark Padgett · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 05, 2001, 01:14am

Here's the scenario: during the game, team A runs a play where A2 gets inside position facing the backboard on the weak side. A1 throws a pass off the board to A2, who then puts the ball back up for a layin. They run this play a few times.

Then, on one pass off the board, A1 throws it really hard and it caroms (notice I didn't say "rebounds") off the board over A2's hands and bounces all the way into the backcourt untouched. A1 then goes into the backcourt and touches the ball.

What, if anything, is the call?

BigDave · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 05, 2001, 02:00am

I'll say it is an over and back violation. Team A still had team control when the ball crossed the division line. The carom off the backboard was just an errant pass.

JRutledge · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 05, 2001, 02:11am

You better be sure that you have a pass or you are asking for it, period.

And I am not saying to not rule it a pass at all, but if you are not sure, you will be in big trouble if you call it backcourt violation. You might be a 100% correct, but do not go looking for trouble.

BigDave · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 05, 2001, 02:45am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
You better be sure that you have a pass or you are asking for it, period.

I realize the called violation in this situation is a tough call, but I'd be willing to make it. If Team A has established this play throughout the game, I'd blow it in a heartbeat. The question is, what if you don't blow it dead? An opposing coach that knows the rule will eat you alive. Now that is water that I prefer not to tread in.

BktBallRef · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 05, 2001, 07:13am

Quote:

Originally posted by BigDave
The question is, what if you don't blow it dead? An opposing coach that knows the rule will eat you alive. Now that is water that I prefer not to tread in.

Now let's be honest. What are the chances that the coach will know what the rule is? Call it or don't call it and either way one of them is going to think you missed it!

BTW, I too, think it's a BC violation.

Brian Watson · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 05, 2001, 07:26am

If this is the third time they have run the same play, then I will call it and feel quite sure it was a pass.

If it was the first time, I'm letting it go because I don't know what his intent was.

rainmaker · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 05, 2001, 08:23am

Quote:

Originally posted by BigDave
Now that is water that I prefer not to tread in.

[/B]

So, you're officiating water polo now?!

BigDave · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 05, 2001, 09:28am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

So, you're officiating water polo now?!

Yep, and when I get the new webbed officiating shoes, I'll be the fastest guy in the pool!

JRutledge · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 05, 2001, 09:39am

All I am saying is that you better be sure. Because if you just think they ran the play a couple of time and you call this a BC violation, you will find yourself in an arguement. Because the coach will claim it was a shot. So all I am saying is do not just assume, give some benefit of the doubt if there was clearly no attempt to shoot and the other player was clearly attempting to go up and make a play on the ball.

This is just judgement that is all.

Peace

bob jenkins · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 05, 2001, 09:59am

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
BTW, I too, think it's a BC violation.

I think it *should* be a violation, but as we discussed on McGriff's, I think the rules can be used to show it isn't.

Brian Watson · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 05, 2001, 10:45am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
All I am saying is that you better be sure. Because if you just think they ran the play a couple of time and you call this a BC violation, you will find yourself in an arguement. Because the coach will claim it was a shot. So all I am saying is do not just assume, give some benefit of the doubt if there was clearly no attempt to shoot and the other player was clearly attempting to go up and make a play on the ball.

This is just judgement that is all.

Peace

Judgement is why we get paid the big bucks Rut. If it has been a pattern all game, and it quacks like a duck, I am going to call it as such.

I would rather take heat from the coach I called it on, than the one who I didn't call it for. Common sense and judgment play into every call and interpretation of the rules, but if I am 99.9% sure that was a pass, I am not going wuss out and call it a shot just to avoid the heat.

JoeT · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 05, 2001, 10:52am

Quote:

Originally posted by BigDave
I'll say it is an over and back violation. Team A still had team control when the ball crossed the division line. The carom off the backboard was just an errant pass.

Help me out here. At what point did team A establish team control?

rockyroad · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 05, 2001, 11:33am

The original post said that team A was passing the ball - so they have team control...somebody posted one like this before - about a player throwing a pass off the backboard so hard it went clear into the backcourt...I can see both sides: call it bc or claim it was a shot attempt so no team control...what I want to know is who keeps seeing these plays??? I have officiated for 12 years (I think it's 12, maybe more...)and never seen a pass like that once...I think maybe someone is making plays up in their spare time...

Brian Watson · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 05, 2001, 11:38am

Quote:

what I want to know is who keeps seeing these plays??? I have officiated for 12 years (I think it's 12, maybe more...)[/B]

I chalk it up to the summer league vortex, if it can happen it will.

While I have never seen a pass carom off and go beyond the division line, I have seen three point tries do it. It doesn't take a lot of force to have it rifle back that far.

rainmaker · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 05, 2001, 11:59am

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad
I have officiated for 12 years (I think it's 12, maybe more...)and never seen a pass like that once...I think maybe someone is making plays up in their spare time...

It's because you've been doing good basketball. At 6th and 7th grade girls level, and even some boys games at that age level, ANYTHING can happen, and both coaches will have their own interpretation, and there you are ...