what concerns would you bring up to your assignor

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by deecee

I didnt know he said this yet -- the assistants are standing again -- I tell them sit or it will cost them -- "but your partner said its ok" -- I got furious -- I told them I dont care what my partner said I will deal with him and straighten it out but you guys had better be planted on the bench like I asked you before. The assistant went to ask something and all I said "This is not a discussion and walked away."

- Don't bother your assigner with this.

- Why get furious? Just smile and tell the head coach that *you* (you = deecee) need him to help you with this. If he asks why, tell him because it's the rule. If he asks about your partner again just repeat that it aint about your partner, *you* need the assistants to sit. Smile and thank him again. If he asks again about your partner lose the smile and tell him the assistants need to sit, period, and walk away. The first time an assistant gets up to address you or your partner T him up.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

- Don't bother your assigner with this.

- Why get furious? Just smile and tell the head coach that *you* (you = deecee) need him to help you with this. If he asks why, tell him because it's the rule. If he asks about your partner again just repeat that it aint about your partner, *you* need the assistants to sit. Smile and thank him again. If he asks again about your partner lose the smile and tell him the assistants need to sit, period, and walk away. The first time an assistant gets up to address you or your partner T him up.

I think this is bad advice. You don't want to create a confrontation like this. Just get thru the game and move on with your career. Nothing good is going to be serve by you pushing the envelop here. If you're not going to report him, then just don't work with him again.

It's true! I did turn down a championship game because I refuse to work with some people. I knew this person was going to call all over the court, my area, his area, nope, not burning up gas in my tank to go over there and do that, rather stay at home.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Old School

I think this is bad advice. You don't want to create a confrontation like this. Just get thru the game and move on with your career. Nothing good is going to be serve by you pushing the envelop here. If you're not going to report him, then just don't work with him again.

Well I think your advice (and most of your advice) is just God awful. For one not to say anything confrontational and walk away from an irate coach is great advice. For one you do not have to say anything you regret. You are asking the coach to follow the rule. I also do not like to discuss anything my partner said, because it is not relevant to the conversation. If he wants to ask my partners something, he needs to talk to my partners. When I am talking to a coach all I can defend at that time are what I have witnessed. Have you really ever officiated before?

Originally Posted by Old School

It's true! I did turn down a championship game because I refuse to work with some people. I knew this person was going to call all over the court, my area, his area, nope, not burning up gas in my tank to go over there and do that, rather stay at home.

I do not believe you. Or you are one of the most unprofessional officials that have ever lived. I can work with anyone no matter what problems I have had with them in the past. If you were assigned a Championship game because you did not get along with one person, than you are not as smart as I give you credit for.

Peace

[deecee]

the defense had about one or 2 defenders get back -- but the offense had a lightning fast and quick guard who pretty much made it a a 2on1/2on2 drive and he passed to the wing who was racing down the court who caught and went in full speed. Defender who was back just waited squared up and took in straight in the chest right around the low block. Easy call from the parking lot IMO.

I thank you all for your comments and opinions -- I will not bother the assignor with this but I WILL NOT work this official again if I find out before I take an assignment he is working. He isnt in my HS association which is good but what killed it for me was after I told the Assistant at half time that what I said was the way it will be for me and thats all that mattered and then he comes in and contradicts me -- lost lot of respect there and if this happened after the second game and all done he would have heard it from me. but by then I didnt give 2 shoots.

[MadCityRef]

I am pleased to know your assignor couldn't give "two shoots" about his client (the tourney organizer) by having one ref work 5 games with the last two being the most intense. And that's the partner he could scrounge up for you. Thanks, buddy.
Now we know how refs in your area feel about working those AAU tourneys.
What happens when your pard shows up to work with you again?
Tell your assignor no thanks to that guy, especially since he didn't care you were under the bus he was driving. I don't care either (who is standing) but I'm not telling them that.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

I am pleased to know your assignor couldn't give "two shoots" about his client (the tourney organizer) by having one ref work 5 games with the last two being the most intense. And that's the partner he could scrounge up for you. Thanks, buddy.

There's real life out there, Mad. Sometimes, assignors are real short of competent officials, especially when you're trying to fill slots in these AAU-type tournaments composed of hundreds of games. If you don't have some people work 5 games a day, then the alternative is having no officials on some of the games. You also might have to use officials that maybe you really don't want to use, but again, the alternative is no officials. And it's impossible to put all good officials together with each other because you just don't have enough "good" officials. You have some "fair" officials and you have some "poor officials. All officials bases are like that. That's why they get used in big tournaments like these. As an assignor, you also always want to partner up a "good" official with a "poor" official too, and not put two "poor" officials together.

It just ain't that easy, Mad, believe me.

[Jimgolf]

DeeCee, are you concerned at all that your partner might be reporting you?

If he is going against your warnings to the coaches, might he also be reporting that you were not getting back in proper position on fast breaks? Is there possibly a need for a preemptive strike, so to speak? Or are you on good terms with the assignor and not worried about this?

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well I think your advice (and most of your advice) is just God awful. I don't care what you think! For one not to say anything confrontational and walk away from an irate coach is great advice.

Who said the coach was irate? I thought the problem was the AC standing. Not that the AC or HC was being irate. That's a different story. Telling an official to do something against there partner is bad advice and creates a situation can that turn ugly for the officials. Best to walk away from that and uphold the integrity of officiating then to challenge your partner in public. And like I said, never, ever work with this person again.

Here's my advice Deecee, if you told the AC he can't stand and your partner said he could. Let him stand, leave that issue along for the rest of the day. If the AC says one word to you that you don't like. Give him the technical foul signal, and tell both of them they must remain seated now. Partners comes over and says it's okay for them to stand. Fine, no problem. Now, if they say another word to you or get in your way. Technical and you now must leave the gym. Notice how I did not give them a technical for standing. There is more than one way to skin a cat. I bet you got there attention now, and I bet the remaining coach sits down.

I still think the assigner needs to know that this guy, unknowingly, doesn't know the rules, and he needs to be told. It is a way of learning for some of us hard heads. You can't tell them because they want listen to you, but the assigner can.

If you were assigned a Championship game because you did not get along with one person, than you are not as smart as I give you credit for.

If you go back and read this statement, you need to be questioning your own intelligence. There are some people, about a hand full, I refuse to work with. Now, when I get called for an assignment, my answer now is always, it depends on who I'm working with. I get enough assignments now where I can do this. This wasn't the case a few years ago. I have worked hard and put myself in a position where I can now control when I work and who I work with.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Old School

Who said the coach was irate? I thought the problem was the AC standing. Not that the AC or HC was being irate. That's a different story. Telling an official to do something against there partner is bad advice and creates a situation can that turn ugly for the officials. Best to walk away from that and uphold the integrity of officiating then to challenge your partner in public. And like I said, never, ever work with this person again.

This is the reason no one should listen to anything you have to say. Dan did not say anything about his partner. He asked the coach to listen what he was telling him. If you had officiated anything, you would know that coaches play that game all the time trying to tell us what our partner did or said. The coach wanted to play the classic bad cop, good cop. Hey, it has been proven no one really likes your advice at all.

What levels do you work again?

Originally Posted by Old School

If you go back and read this statement, you need to be questioning your own intelligence. There are some people, about a hand full, I refuse to work with. Now, when I get called for an assignment, my answer now is always, it depends on who I'm working with. I get enough assignments now where I can do this. This wasn't the case a few years ago. I have worked hard and put myself in a position where I can now control when I work and who I work with.

If you really worked for anyone of significance, you would know that you have little or no choice in who you work with in the first place. I can tell you if you work college ball, you are not going to tell an assignor you will not work with someone or they will just get rid of you and consider you the problem. I can tell you have never worked those games before. Assignors are assignors for a reason. You do not tell your boss how to do their job. This is why I cannot believe you told an assignor you did not want to work with someone in a championship game.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is why I cannot believe you told an assignor you did not want to work with someone in a championship game.

Jeff, it's easier to understand and believe when you realize he simply misspelled "intramural championship game."

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Hey, it has been proven no one really likes your advice at all.

The people that frequent this forum, yes! But this forum does not represent all of America. It just represents a few uptight officials that has to have it there way. Your way or no way. Sorry, I couldn't resist that.

If you really worked for anyone of significance, you would know that you have little or no choice in who you work with in the first place. I can tell you if you work college ball, you are not going to tell an assignor you will not work with someone or they will just get rid of you and consider you the problem. Then you would be surprised! I can tell you have never worked those games before. Assignors are assignors for a reason. You do not tell your boss how to do their job. This is why I cannot believe you told an assignor you did not want to work with someone in a championship game.

Believe it or not big dog, I told them no. I turned back a college game this year, same reason. I also assign and maybe it's because of the way I feel about this. But I have respect for someone that says they prefer not to work with this person or that person. I bet this happens more often than not. You don't have to tell your assigner you don't like the guy, you just click the button unavailable this day, something unforeseen came up. The guy that asked me to work the C-Game was a friend and I could talk to him honesty.

Remember one thing JRUT. The laws of business in America is an open market society. When you are good at what you do. Someones going to want you, then you can dictate the terms.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Old School

The people that frequent this forum, yes! But this forum does not represent all of America. It just represents a few uptight officials that has to have it there way. Your way or no way. Sorry, I couldn't resist that.

I have talked to officials all over the country in person. This is not the only place I have have conversations with officials. You talk unlike any other official that has had any success. You sound more like a rookie that is trying to prove they know something. Successful officials that I have come in contact with do not talk like you in any way.

Believe it or not big dog, I told them no. I turned back a college game this year, same reason. I also assign and maybe it's because of the way I feel about this. But I have respect for someone that says they prefer not to work with this person or that person. I bet this happens more often than not. You don't have to tell your assigner you don't like the guy, you just click the button unavailable this day, something unforeseen came up. The guy that asked me to work the C-Game was a friend and I could talk to him honesty.[/QUOTE]

I have talked to a lot of officials that complain they had to work with a particular person. I would never suggest it never happens, but it is very rare. The ones that are able to choose are likely the top officials out the entire area and they can demand a lot of things. I guess it is possible you could have turned down a game for that stated reason (if you told the assignor that was the reason), but I seriously doubt you will get many opportunities outside of this "Championship game."

Originally Posted by Old School

Remember one thing JRUT. The laws of business in America is an open market society. When you are good at what you do. Someones going to want you, then you can dictate the terms.

First of all this is not the law of business at work. If someone does not want to not hire you because you are not reliable or that you are not trustworthy they can do that. I did not say someone can make you do anything, but they can decide you are not who they want to make the next call to.

Sometimes I wonder do you really understand what people are saying to you.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I cannot believe I missed that comment.

Peace

Can you imagine telling a college assignor that you're refusing an game because you don't want to work with the rest of the crew that he assigned to that game?

Lah me.........

Beam me up, Scotty.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

than you are not as smart as I give you credit for.

If you gave him ANY credit for being smart, then you're not as smart as I gave YOU credit for.

[deecee]

that's the thing was that the assignor was short officicals thats why I did 5 games instead of just 3 -- there were 2 really good officials on the neighboring court that I would rather have had work these 2 games but that feeling was after the fact.

This partner is not in my HS association so I dont have to worry about working any HS games with him and I doubt he would be higher than a frosh/soph ref as I have NEVER seen anyones eyes so glued to the basketball as his were.

Honestly OS -- I considered what you suggested -- let AC stand as soon as he questions anything I call whack him. I thought about it but even though its AAU -- I use those games to really work on game management and I believe if you can manage an AAU game -- HS is a walk in the park. At least HS has structure and a system in place for enforcement of rules and regulations. AAU goes tourney by tourney so what one coach does on the last game of a tourney wont carry over -- like getting ejected.

**Side note -- this same AC -- and I mentioned this to my partner and he just brushed it off like I had a grudge against him -- in a previous tourney about 2 months earlier after a game where I t'd him up late went after my partner cursing him out and saying he was the worst official ever -- he even said something like that to me and came at me. I took a step to him and told him he better think twice before doing or saying anything stupid and he walked away cussing me out. Thing was this was the last game of the tourney.
Fast forward to this past weekend -- for the most part he never said anything rude to me and I will be honest first sign of trouble he was not going to get a warning. I would have T'd him up for standing the second time if my partner hadnt said it was ok.

Here is why I have decided not to say anything -- there are some officials that will learn and some that want to -- this guy will never learn and I usually dont say stuff like this but I dont think he will ever be at an even level as an official with me. Thats just the facts -- there are guys way better than me and guys way worse -- some try and move up because they want to and can. He might want to I dont think he can. I would never guess so much drama from a damn basketball game. thanks for all your replies