what concerns would you bring up to your assignor

[deecee]

about a partner you worked with.

this past weekend I worked a youth tourney.

last 2 games of a 5 game set on a college court (i was exhausted) were the 12U and 14U boys championship.

first game I have one team with Head coach and both assistants standing -- I tell the HC he can be the only one up -- an assistant asked me "what if I am coaching" -- i replied say what you have to then sit back down.

couple seconds later I tell my partner what I told them and he says "I dont care." Well they ask him about a minute later and he tells them "I dont care if you stand as long as you coach."

I didnt know he said this yet -- the assistants are standing again -- I tell them sit or it will cost them -- "but your partner said its ok" -- I got furious -- I told them I dont care what my partner said I will deal with him and straighten it out but you guys had better be planted on the bench like I asked you before. The assistant went to ask something and all I said "This is not a discussion and walked away."

Half time I tell my parnter WHAT the deal is and WHAT it will be (period). Assisstant comes up to us and asks us if we are on the same page and I told him what I told him last is what stands and that is what we agreed to -- but my partner mentions "I dont care if you stand and coach." i replied to the assistant you will sit or I WILL ring you up and then I told my partner he better do the same (period). He wasnt happy with how that came out but tough sh!t I was now in get done, get out mode.

Game ends and he is going to the coaches all buddy buddy, and probably agreeing to all the negative stuff they were saying about my hard azz. Thats just game 1.

Game 2 everything was fine until i realized he's a ball watcher -- he even looks up to the heavens on a shot -- O SH!T batman. he had several train wrecks in front of him that I had to clean up and a couple times I let him stew in it as well. towards the end of a close game A1 drives baseline and barrels over B1 -- we both have a whistle and I look to him and hes already going the other way with a charge -- I had the same thing no big deal. By now I am exhausted and team B gets the inbounds in and runs up my endline in a fastbreak because team A was napping I guess. This is the very next possession after the charge -- I am about 2 or 3 feet in the backcourt -- the offensive player drives from my side of the court and A2 gets leveled by B2. If I was in position I would have called this ASAP -- but I was so far away and my partner was about 6 feet away across the lane and HE JUST called the same exact thing. No whistle -- I had to go ballistic waving off the basket and calling a charge. SAME EXACT PLAY -- MAYBE EVEN THE SAME PLAYERS INVOLVED. I get this look from him like how could I reach for that.

Now fans and coaches are unhappy -- fans are impling that I am on the other teams books. Are these worth bringing up with the assignor or what?

[JRutledge]

I am just going to give you my opinion and the answer would be no. I would not on my own go to my assignor unless I was asked about the game or incidents. I feel strongly that you should not make a habit to complain about fellow officials unless you know that assignor very well or that he or she is very receptive to that kind of complaining. If anything I would just let it ride and learn from that experience. You do not have to agree on every philosophy, but you had the rules on your side. If you wanted to T the coach, the coaches know the rules and what they can do. If they choose not to follow the rules, then they will suffer the consequences.

Peace

[jeffpea]

here's what I might say when I called the assignor:

"Mr. Assignor, I wanted to thank you for the games this past weekend over at ______. The title games were close and the kids played hard. Do you have an extra minute? I wanted to ask you about a situation that game up in one of the games; it has to do with bench decorum/game management......(then I would proceed to explain what happened in game 1). How do you think I should handle that if it happens again?"

I wouldn't touch the subject of questioning a partner's judgement to my assignor. If asked, I may only say "he had a couple of judgement calls that were tough and I'm not sure they were as consistent as I would have liked"....

If you really feel strongly about not working w/ that partner again, simply tell your assignor.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

here's what I might say when I called the assignor:

"Mr. Assignor, I wanted to thank you for the games this past weekend over at ______. The title games were close and the kids played hard. Do you have an extra minute? I wanted to ask you about a situation that game up in one of the games; it has to do with bench decorum/game management......(then I would proceed to explain what happened in game 1). How do you think I should handle that if it happens again?"

I wouldn't touch the subject of questioning a partner's judgement to my assignor. If asked, I may only say "he had a couple of judgement calls that were tough and I'm not sure they were as consistent as I would have liked"....

If you really feel strongly about not working w/ that partner again, simply tell your assignor.

Tell me of an assignor anywhere that wouldnt ask "Why not?" when told that you didnt want to work w/ someone you just did a game with...

The fouls you mentioned in the sich?- no reason to bring those up. But the pre game or in this case pre 2nd half converse w/partner should have put you both on the same page. I WOULD tell the assignor that he "threw you under the bus" and why. As you know, your only friend out there is your pard, but I guess not that night...

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am just going to give you my opinion and the answer would be no. I would not on my own go to my assignor unless I was asked about the game or incidents. I feel strongly that you should not make a habit to complain about fellow officials unless you know that assignor very well or that he or she is very receptive to that kind of complaining.

I agree with most of this but in this one case, specially the issue with the assistant coach standing, and openly disagreeing with partner. Hell yea, you got to report that. What you are doing by reporting this is teaching this moron the rules, and it's insulting to go against your partner in front of the coaches. However, remember Deecee, this is AAU type program and possibly not a lot is going to be done. But I would still mention it and next time, do not engage in this type of discussion with partner in front of coaches. It makes both of you look bad, IMO. I would back off and just try to get thru the games.

I'll never forget when I T the AC for standing and then told the HC he has to remain seated. The ironic thing is I warned them. But what made me give them the T was that the AC was complaining and they had a 10 point lead. Now that's 2 things that's wrong. Now guess what. I know that call got back to my assigner because I did not get any games with that school this year, and I had always gotten a game before. I am not in any way disappointed about that because I don't want to work them anyway, anymore, ever. They are jerks.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Old School

I agree with most of this but in this one case, specially the issue with the assistant coach standing, and openly disagreeing with partner. Hell yea, you got to report that. What you are doing by reporting this is teaching this moron the rules, and it's insulting to go against your partner in front of the coaches. However, remember Deecee, this is AAU type program and possibly not a lot is going to be done. But I would still mention it and next time, do not engage in this type of discussion with partner in front of coaches. It makes both of you look bad, IMO. I would back off and just try to get thru the games.

Based on what you have said here many times, someone should report you many times over. (I am sorry I could not resist)

The reason you do not report this or might want to think twice, if you report them about something, you think you might not get reported as well. Now you have done a tit for tat thing that will be harder for the assignor without independent evidence to know who is telling the truth or whose side of the story rings true. This is really the case if you start getting into judgment calls. The assignor gave this guy games for a reason. He might have hooked up Deecee with this guy to see if he could step up and be the leader. You never know why people are put together. Remember we say silence cannot be quoted. That applies to all aspects of officiating.

I would say this, if you are really unsure what do to, ask a veteran that has been around the block several times. You might find out that the word is already out and telling the assignor is not going to make much of a difference.

Peace

Originally Posted by deecee

By now I am exhausted and team B gets the inbounds in and runs up my endline in a fastbreak because team A was napping I guess. This is the very next possession after the charge -- I am about 2 or 3 feet in the backcourt -- the offensive player drives from my side of the court and A2 gets leveled by B2. If I was in position I would have called this ASAP -- but I was so far away and my partner was about 6 feet away across the lane

OK, now don't go off on me. I know I'm inexperienced and shouldn't be questioning someone else, but I have a question about this play (just for my own understanding).

Team B had a fast break because Team A is napping. Doesn't someone from Team A have to get back in time to get into LGP in order to draw the charge? I know I haven't done that many games, but I'm trying to visualize this play, and from the sounds of the OP, I'm picturing players running full speed down the court towards the basket. Unless A1 can get into position with 2 feet on the floor facing the dribbler, isn't the responsibility for avoiding contact on the defender?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by PYRef

Team B had a fast break because Team A is napping. Doesn't someone from Team A have to get back in time to get into LGP in order to draw the charge? I know I haven't done that many games, but I'm trying to visualize this play, and from the sounds of the OP, I'm picturing players running full speed down the court towards the basket. Unless A1 can get into position with 2 feet on the floor facing the dribbler, isn't the responsibility for avoiding contact on the defender?

My question to you is where did he say he did not get back? I think you are over thinking this play. For all you know there could have been a defender sitting near the lane the entire time. Rookie.

Peace

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Based on what you have said here many times, someone should report you many times over. (I am sorry I could not resist) No problem, I deserve it.
The reason you do not report this or might want to think twice, if you report them about something, you think you might not get reported as well. Now you have done a tit for tat thing that will be harder for the assignor without independent evidence to know who is telling the truth or whose side of the story rings true.

Again, I don't disagree with you. But understand, I did not say complain about the judgement call. I am concerned about the assistant standing piece, and the official openly disagreeing with partner in front of coaches, creating a me against you situation for deecee. That is just plain wrong, imo. I think we have to try to teach a person who may not want to listen to a person less in seniority but will listen to the person who assigned them to the game. If nothing else, it's a positive situation for deecee to, I'm going to say not complain but raise a concern about this officials conduct, so that this guy had better not screw around with her again if they should work together again.

However, I will say this. I would never work with this person ever again. Deecee, I was recently offered to wrk a championship game, and I turned it down because I did not want to work with the partner for the game. Always ask, who is my partner b4 you accept the game. I think that speaks volumes too, imho.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Old School

However, I will say this. I would never work with this person ever again. Deecee, I was recently offered to wrk a championship game, and I turned it down because I did not want to work with the partner for the game. Always ask, who is my partner b4 you accept the game. I think that speaks volumes too, imho.

You would work with him again if your assignor gave you a game with him. I love when guys are so adamant about whom they will not work with. You might not have that privilege to do so. Also it was just one game and one experience. I have had bad experiences with partners only to work with them the next time and be OK with the game. Not all assignors are going to care what you want personally or they will not use you in the end.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

My question to you is where did he say he did not get back? I think you are over thinking this play. For all you know there could have been a defender sitting near the lane the entire time. Rookie.

JRut- I agree with you. I thought about that when I wrote it. I was hoping to get a clarification from deecee on the play. His/her OP stated Team A was napping. That doesn't imply that they had someone ready on D.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by PYRef

JRut- I agree with you. I thought about that when I wrote it. I was hoping to get a clarification from deecee on the play. His/her OP stated Team A was napping. That doesn't imply that they had someone ready on D.

You might be completely right, but that does not mean someone was not in LGP to and got ran over. Not all defenders had to be below the low block on their offensive side of the ball.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by deecee

I didnt know he said this yet -- the assistants are standing again -- I tell them sit or it will cost them -- "but your partner said its ok" -- I got furious -- I told them I dont care what my partner said I will deal with him and straighten it out but you guys had better be planted on the bench like I asked you before. The assistant went to ask something and all I said "This is not a discussion and walked away."

- Don't bother your assigner with this.

- Why get furious? Just smile and tell the head coach that *you* (you = deecee) need him to help you with this. If he asks why, tell him because it's the rule. If he asks about your partner again just repeat that it aint about your partner, *you* need the assistants to sit. Smile and thank him again. If he asks again about your partner lose the smile and tell him the assistants need to sit, period, and walk away. The first time an assistant gets up to address you or your partner T him up.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

- Don't bother your assigner with this.

- Why get furious? Just smile and tell the head coach that *you* (you = deecee) need him to help you with this. If he asks why, tell him because it's the rule. If he asks about your partner again just repeat that it aint about your partner, *you* need the assistants to sit. Smile and thank him again. If he asks again about your partner lose the smile and tell him the assistants need to sit, period, and walk away. The first time an assistant gets up to address you or your partner T him up.

I think this is bad advice. You don't want to create a confrontation like this. Just get thru the game and move on with your career. Nothing good is going to be serve by you pushing the envelop here. If you're not going to report him, then just don't work with him again.

It's true! I did turn down a championship game because I refuse to work with some people. I knew this person was going to call all over the court, my area, his area, nope, not burning up gas in my tank to go over there and do that, rather stay at home.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Old School

I think this is bad advice. You don't want to create a confrontation like this. Just get thru the game and move on with your career. Nothing good is going to be serve by you pushing the envelop here. If you're not going to report him, then just don't work with him again.

Well I think your advice (and most of your advice) is just God awful. For one not to say anything confrontational and walk away from an irate coach is great advice. For one you do not have to say anything you regret. You are asking the coach to follow the rule. I also do not like to discuss anything my partner said, because it is not relevant to the conversation. If he wants to ask my partners something, he needs to talk to my partners. When I am talking to a coach all I can defend at that time are what I have witnessed. Have you really ever officiated before?

Originally Posted by Old School

It's true! I did turn down a championship game because I refuse to work with some people. I knew this person was going to call all over the court, my area, his area, nope, not burning up gas in my tank to go over there and do that, rather stay at home.

I do not believe you. Or you are one of the most unprofessional officials that have ever lived. I can work with anyone no matter what problems I have had with them in the past. If you were assigned a Championship game because you did not get along with one person, than you are not as smart as I give you credit for.

Peace