what concerns would you bring up to your assignor

[deecee]

the defense had about one or 2 defenders get back -- but the offense had a lightning fast and quick guard who pretty much made it a a 2on1/2on2 drive and he passed to the wing who was racing down the court who caught and went in full speed. Defender who was back just waited squared up and took in straight in the chest right around the low block. Easy call from the parking lot IMO.

I thank you all for your comments and opinions -- I will not bother the assignor with this but I WILL NOT work this official again if I find out before I take an assignment he is working. He isnt in my HS association which is good but what killed it for me was after I told the Assistant at half time that what I said was the way it will be for me and thats all that mattered and then he comes in and contradicts me -- lost lot of respect there and if this happened after the second game and all done he would have heard it from me. but by then I didnt give 2 shoots.

[MadCityRef]

I am pleased to know your assignor couldn't give "two shoots" about his client (the tourney organizer) by having one ref work 5 games with the last two being the most intense. And that's the partner he could scrounge up for you. Thanks, buddy.
Now we know how refs in your area feel about working those AAU tourneys.
What happens when your pard shows up to work with you again?
Tell your assignor no thanks to that guy, especially since he didn't care you were under the bus he was driving. I don't care either (who is standing) but I'm not telling them that.

[rainmaker]

Okay, JR, so as an assignor, would you want to know if a partner sold out someone like in the OP? Or would you write the tattler off as a whiner? Or something inbetween?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Okay, JR, so as an assignor, would you want to know if a partner sold out someone like in the OP? Or would you write the tattler off as a whiner? Or something inbetween?

I'd want to know. The Association executive needs to know also, and they then have to do something about it. It's unprofessional as hell imo and the official doing that has to told once to cut that crap out. You don't throw your partner under the bus like that, and you sureashell don't go over to the coaches to suck around them after the game after making your partner look bad.

After being around different officials for a while and getting to know them, you figure out fairly easily who the whiners are and who has legitimate concerns. If it's a legitimate concern, then something should be done about it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

I am pleased to know your assignor couldn't give "two shoots" about his client (the tourney organizer) by having one ref work 5 games with the last two being the most intense. And that's the partner he could scrounge up for you. Thanks, buddy.

There's real life out there, Mad. Sometimes, assignors are real short of competent officials, especially when you're trying to fill slots in these AAU-type tournaments composed of hundreds of games. If you don't have some people work 5 games a day, then the alternative is having no officials on some of the games. You also might have to use officials that maybe you really don't want to use, but again, the alternative is no officials. And it's impossible to put all good officials together with each other because you just don't have enough "good" officials. You have some "fair" officials and you have some "poor officials. All officials bases are like that. That's why they get used in big tournaments like these. As an assignor, you also always want to partner up a "good" official with a "poor" official too, and not put two "poor" officials together.

It just ain't that easy, Mad, believe me.

[Jimgolf]

DeeCee, are you concerned at all that your partner might be reporting you?

If he is going against your warnings to the coaches, might he also be reporting that you were not getting back in proper position on fast breaks? Is there possibly a need for a preemptive strike, so to speak? Or are you on good terms with the assignor and not worried about this?

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well I think your advice (and most of your advice) is just God awful. I don't care what you think! For one not to say anything confrontational and walk away from an irate coach is great advice.

Who said the coach was irate? I thought the problem was the AC standing. Not that the AC or HC was being irate. That's a different story. Telling an official to do something against there partner is bad advice and creates a situation can that turn ugly for the officials. Best to walk away from that and uphold the integrity of officiating then to challenge your partner in public. And like I said, never, ever work with this person again.

Here's my advice Deecee, if you told the AC he can't stand and your partner said he could. Let him stand, leave that issue along for the rest of the day. If the AC says one word to you that you don't like. Give him the technical foul signal, and tell both of them they must remain seated now. Partners comes over and says it's okay for them to stand. Fine, no problem. Now, if they say another word to you or get in your way. Technical and you now must leave the gym. Notice how I did not give them a technical for standing. There is more than one way to skin a cat. I bet you got there attention now, and I bet the remaining coach sits down.

I still think the assigner needs to know that this guy, unknowingly, doesn't know the rules, and he needs to be told. It is a way of learning for some of us hard heads. You can't tell them because they want listen to you, but the assigner can.

If you were assigned a Championship game because you did not get along with one person, than you are not as smart as I give you credit for.

If you go back and read this statement, you need to be questioning your own intelligence. There are some people, about a hand full, I refuse to work with. Now, when I get called for an assignment, my answer now is always, it depends on who I'm working with. I get enough assignments now where I can do this. This wasn't the case a few years ago. I have worked hard and put myself in a position where I can now control when I work and who I work with.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

than you are not as smart as I give you credit for.

If you gave him ANY credit for being smart, then you're not as smart as I gave YOU credit for.

[deecee]

that's the thing was that the assignor was short officicals thats why I did 5 games instead of just 3 -- there were 2 really good officials on the neighboring court that I would rather have had work these 2 games but that feeling was after the fact.

This partner is not in my HS association so I dont have to worry about working any HS games with him and I doubt he would be higher than a frosh/soph ref as I have NEVER seen anyones eyes so glued to the basketball as his were.

Honestly OS -- I considered what you suggested -- let AC stand as soon as he questions anything I call whack him. I thought about it but even though its AAU -- I use those games to really work on game management and I believe if you can manage an AAU game -- HS is a walk in the park. At least HS has structure and a system in place for enforcement of rules and regulations. AAU goes tourney by tourney so what one coach does on the last game of a tourney wont carry over -- like getting ejected.

**Side note -- this same AC -- and I mentioned this to my partner and he just brushed it off like I had a grudge against him -- in a previous tourney about 2 months earlier after a game where I t'd him up late went after my partner cursing him out and saying he was the worst official ever -- he even said something like that to me and came at me. I took a step to him and told him he better think twice before doing or saying anything stupid and he walked away cussing me out. Thing was this was the last game of the tourney.
Fast forward to this past weekend -- for the most part he never said anything rude to me and I will be honest first sign of trouble he was not going to get a warning. I would have T'd him up for standing the second time if my partner hadnt said it was ok.

Here is why I have decided not to say anything -- there are some officials that will learn and some that want to -- this guy will never learn and I usually dont say stuff like this but I dont think he will ever be at an even level as an official with me. Thats just the facts -- there are guys way better than me and guys way worse -- some try and move up because they want to and can. He might want to I dont think he can. I would never guess so much drama from a damn basketball game. thanks for all your replies

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Old School

Who said the coach was irate? I thought the problem was the AC standing. Not that the AC or HC was being irate. That's a different story. Telling an official to do something against there partner is bad advice and creates a situation can that turn ugly for the officials. Best to walk away from that and uphold the integrity of officiating then to challenge your partner in public. And like I said, never, ever work with this person again.

This is the reason no one should listen to anything you have to say. Dan did not say anything about his partner. He asked the coach to listen what he was telling him. If you had officiated anything, you would know that coaches play that game all the time trying to tell us what our partner did or said. The coach wanted to play the classic bad cop, good cop. Hey, it has been proven no one really likes your advice at all.

What levels do you work again?

Originally Posted by Old School

If you go back and read this statement, you need to be questioning your own intelligence. There are some people, about a hand full, I refuse to work with. Now, when I get called for an assignment, my answer now is always, it depends on who I'm working with. I get enough assignments now where I can do this. This wasn't the case a few years ago. I have worked hard and put myself in a position where I can now control when I work and who I work with.

If you really worked for anyone of significance, you would know that you have little or no choice in who you work with in the first place. I can tell you if you work college ball, you are not going to tell an assignor you will not work with someone or they will just get rid of you and consider you the problem. I can tell you have never worked those games before. Assignors are assignors for a reason. You do not tell your boss how to do their job. This is why I cannot believe you told an assignor you did not want to work with someone in a championship game.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is why I cannot believe you told an assignor you did not want to work with someone in a championship game.

Jeff, it's easier to understand and believe when you realize he simply misspelled "intramural championship game."

[Old School]

Originally Posted by deecee

Honestly OS -- I considered what you suggested -- let AC stand as soon as he questions anything I call whack him. I thought about it but even though its AAU -- I use those games to really work on game management and I believe if you can manage an AAU game -- HS is a walk in the park. At least HS has structure and a system in place for enforcement of rules and regulations. AAU goes tourney by tourney so what one coach does on the last game of a tourney wont carry over -- like getting ejected.

Actually, this is the perfect place to work on this type of thing. The coaches was trying to (lack of a better word) punk you by going to your partner and getting your decision reversed. Have you heard the saying, it's not always nice to fool with mother nature? Repalce mother nature for official working your game. Now we just wait. When you hear them say, TRAVEL! TRAVEL! THAT'S A FOUL! Beep! Technical foul, AC! Now you must remain seated, oh, and please don't forget to say that right after giving them the T.

Your objective here was 1 of 2 things. You can both stand up but you better not say a word directed at me, or only one of you is going to stand up and coach this game. Consider it a success if only one coach is standing at one time. I personnally don't like to pick fights in this area, but once you stated AC couldn't stand. The line was drawn. Don't fool with mother nature.

Fast forward to this past weekend -- for the most part he never said anything rude to me (you see JRUT, this was not an irate coach!) and I will be honest first sign of trouble he was not going to get a warning. Now you're think right... I would have T'd him up for standing the second time if my partner hadnt said it was ok.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

If you gave him ANY credit for being smart, then you're not as smart as I gave YOU credit for.

Sometimes Scrappy you have to consider the source.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

You can both stand up but you better not say a word directed at me, or only one of you is going to stand up and coach this game.

The line was drawn. Don't fool with mother nature.

Didn't Mother Nature also say "I'm warning you coach, don't curse at me again"?

I get it. You'd better not say a word, but if you do say a word, it is OK if the word that you say is a curse word directed at the official, but don't say that curse word again, and don't say any other word other than a curse word in the first place. Or else.

Words to live by.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Sometimes Scrappy you have to consider the source.

Peace

I'll agree with that 150%.