a rant on game management priorities

[refnjoe]

Forgive me for the rant, but I need to vent to people who will understand. Or maybe you guys can tell me Im nuts

Freshmen boys game- Everything going well in first half. We had to tell players to keep their shirts tucked in several times, no big deal.

At halftime, my partner complains to me, saying he never seen a game where the players just wouldn't keep their shirts in. I laugh, and he says, "Whats the rule on that? Can we call a technical?"

I explain that there is nothing to my knowledge allowing a T for that, and only real recourse is to tell them to tuck em in, and as last resort can send a player out of the game (I think).

So, he tells coaches at beginning of half time to ask the players to keep on it, so we wont have to. I have no problem with that.

Later in 3rd quarter, there was a loose ball and some contact, nothing that I would judge a foul, and no call by either of us. Player on visiting team goes down, holding face. When possession is secured, we whistle for possible injury.

Visiting coach is complaining that there should have been a foul called. I can take this, although I disagree, but then ASSISTANT coach starts running his mouth. He has already made a couple comments on the previous trip down the court. I tell head coach that his bench needs to leave the officiating to the officials, and that I didn't want to hear anything else from the assistant.

When I had a chance, I tell partner that V bench/assistant has been warned about addressing/complaining to the officials and that I wasn't going to keep listening to it. He says he doesn't think we should call a T for this, and it would only be like adding salt to the wound (visitors were down by 20)

How's that? This from the guy who wanted to call a T for a shirt being untucked???

[tjones1]

You are correct. You can direct them to leave the game. However, the technical would fall on the coach for delay of game if the coach fail to sub a player for the one you directed to leave.

[Mountaineer]

IMO, I think you were correct. Warning an assistant is just a way to tell him to shut up. Wanting to whack a kid for having his shirt out sounds like someone read a new rule this week and didn't understand the whole thing.

My warning for shirts not tucked in comes in pregame. I will give a courtesy warning during a FT - "Check your shirts guys". If someone gives me any kind of an attitude or refuses to tuck them in neatly, I ask them to follow me and send them out. If you take care of it early - 1st qtr - you won't have to worry about it any more during the game. I am a jerk about this issue. (If there's a circumstance that's odd, I take that into consideration - i.e. older uni's that have short tails, etc.)

About the assistant coach - I do not talk to assistant coaches - period. I sit them down immediately when they stand up for any reason (other than to spontaneously cheer for a play) and if they address me, that's my reply - I don't talk to assistants. If they get pi$$y, I let the coach know they need to control them or I will.

[Jurassic Referee]

You know what amazes me? NBA players automatically tuck their shirts in. High school players still have to be told.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You know what amazes me? NBA players automatically tuck their shirts in. High school players still have to be told.

I believe that the league fines them if this is observed on the video when the league reviews each game. Hitting them in the pocketbook gets compliance darn quick.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You know what amazes me? NBA players automatically tuck their shirts in. High school players still have to be told.

JR:

That is a great observation. And it is one that I tell the captains before the start of a H.S. game. I would like to know if NBA and WNBA players are fined for not wearing their uniforms correctly.

MTD, Sr.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

JR:

That is a great observation. And it is one that I tell the captains before the start of a H.S. game. I would like to know if NBA and WNBA players are fined for not wearing their uniforms correctly.

I believe that they are fined in the NBA, Mark, as Nevada said. Iirc, the fine is so minimal though that it's barely pocket change to the player. I also read somewhere- also iirc in one of Charles Barkley's books, that players don't really worry that much about fines because they're tax deductible.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

My warning for shirts not tucked in comes in pregame. I will give a courtesy warning during a FT - "Check your shirts guys". If someone gives me any kind of an attitude or refuses to tuck them in neatly, I ask them to follow me and send them out. If you take care of it early - 1st qtr - you won't have to worry about it any more during the game. I am persistent about this issue. (If there's a circumstance that's odd, I take that into consideration - i.e. older uni's that have short tails, etc.)

Ditto that, and very well said.

I will, however, give a player a technical foul for shirt tail not tucked, after several warnings of course. Real example: Girls 10th grade game. I'm administrating the FT and I tell player to tuck in. Won't do it. I repeat, same response. I send player to bench. Coach asks why and I said, she won't tuck in her shirt. Okay, next dead whistle, coach sends her back. I warn her again. Still won't do it. BLAM! Technical foul, unsportsmanlike conduct. I'm not going to keep sending them to the bench. I'm putting the owness on the players too. They too are responsible for there actions.

Just like, I'm not going to address an assistance coach thru the head coach. If the assistance is out of line in IMO, I will deal directly with him/her. Real example: Late in the game this weekend, my partner called a foul on one of the key players on the team. Assistance coach stomps his feet to the floor which I clearly heard and jumps up off the bench in disgust of the foul call. I called a Direct Technical to the assistance coach, indirect to the head coach, coach must now remain seated. I'm not going to the head coach and giving him a warning about inappropriate behavior from an assistance, or that the AC must remain seated at all times or should not talk to me. Not going there.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Old School

owness
there actions.
assistance coach
the assistance
Assistance coach
assistance coach,
an assistance,

Hey Old Fool - I think you need some "assistance" with your spelling.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Old School

I will, however, give a player a technical foul for shirt tail not tucked, after several warnings of course.

Especially for all new or inexperience officials, please ignore this idiotic statement. There is absolutley, positively no basis for this whatsoever!

Old School, you maybe the biggest to ever post on this board.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Especially for all new or inexperience officials, please ignore this idiotic statement. There is absolutley, positively no basis for this whatsoever!

Old School, you maybe the biggest to ever post on this board.

And you the most arrogant, however, I have no problem giving a player a technical for not tucking in there shirt, after several warning of course. And you know what, after I do this, people start taking me real serious in my games, and players start tucking in there shirts. The technical is Unsportsmanlike Conduct. Rule 10.3.7: This includes "BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO".....

Deal with it, master

My point is this. Where does it end. The rule committee says this is a point of emphasis. So I give the players and the coach multiple warnings, send the players to the bench, but some players just refuse to obey this rule. I actually see them pull the shirt up, so that it's not tucked in. You have to take a side here. Either you are going to enforce it or you're going to let the players marginally get away with it. I personally am sick of telling players to tuck there shirts in. I'm sick of it at all levels. So now, I go technical foul and then there's no problems afterwards.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

I will, however, give a player a technical foul for shirt tail not tucked, after several warnings of course.

If you ever do work your way up to a high school JV game in the future and you make that call, you will very quickly be on your way back down to the rec leagues from whence you came.

Originally Posted by Old School

I'm putting the owness on the players too.

Onus

o·nus /ˈoʊnəs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[oh-nuhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural o·nus·es. 1. a difficult or disagreeable obligation, task, burden, etc.
2. burden of proof. Compare onus probandi.
3. blame or responsibility.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If you ever do work your way up to a high school JV game in the future and you make that call, you will very quickly be on your way back down to the rec leagues from whence you came.

I'll leave the minor spelling and typo details to the little guys (and gals). This one is big enough for Ms. Annoying Grammar Gal of the Day to address.

The definition of the word "whence" includes the concept of flow, either directional or temporal. Thus using the word "from" is superfluous.

The phrase should read, "... you will very quickly be on your way back down to the rec leagues whence you came. rolleyes."

There will be a test at the end of the thread.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by refnjoe

Forgive me for the rant, but I need to vent to people who will understand. Or maybe you guys can tell me Im nuts

Freshmen boys game- Everything going well in first half. We had to tell players to keep their shirts tucked in several times, no big deal.

At halftime, my partner complains to me, saying he never seen a game where the players just wouldn't keep their shirts in. I laugh, and he says, "Whats the rule on that? Can we call a technical?"

I explain that there is nothing to my knowledge allowing a T for that, and only real recourse is to tell them to tuck em in, and as last resort can send a player out of the game (I think).

So, he tells coaches at beginning of half time to ask the players to keep on it, so we wont have to. I have no problem with that.

Later in 3rd quarter, there was a loose ball and some contact, nothing that I would judge a foul, and no call by either of us. Player on visiting team goes down, holding face. When possession is secured, we whistle for possible injury.

Visiting coach is complaining that there should have been a foul called. I can take this, although I disagree, but then ASSISTANT coach starts running his mouth. He has already made a couple comments on the previous trip down the court. I tell head coach that his bench needs to leave the officiating to the officials, and that I didn't want to hear anything else from the assistant.

When I had a chance, I tell partner that V bench/assistant has been warned about addressing/complaining to the officials and that I wasn't going to keep listening to it. He says he doesn't think we should call a T for this, and it would only be like adding salt to the wound (visitors were down by 20)

How's that? This from the guy who wanted to call a T for a shirt being untucked???

I agree with both you *and* your partner.

As you posted, he merely asked what the rule was on dealing with the shirts -- you didn't say he wanted to call a T. I read it as he wanted to deal with the issue, and he's right.

And, you're right to deal with the assistant coach, but he's right that it could be rubbing salt in the wound to call a T and that there might be better ways to deal with it (sepending on the specific actions of the assistant coach).