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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 05, 2007, 08:56am
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Player Control Foul/Throw-In Violation

Two questions from a fan:

A1 has the ball and is guarded man-to-man by B1. A2 sets a legal screen and B1 fouls A2 as he attempts to get through the screen. It is B's 8th team foul. Does A2 shoot a one-and-one? The official said no, because it was a player control foul. Hypothetically reversing the foul - If A2's screen is not legal and he commits the foul, Does B1 shoot a one-and-one if it is A's 8th team foul?

A has the ball on the baseline for a throw-in. As the thrower starts the throw-in, he realizes the defense will intercept the pass, so he holds onto the ball. Him momentum carries him forward and he steps on (not over) the line. Is this a violation? The official said yes.

Thanks!
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Old Fri Jan 05, 2007, 09:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue37
Two questions from a fan:

A1 has the ball and is guarded man-to-man by B1. A2 sets a legal screen and B1 fouls A2 as he attempts to get through the screen. It is B's 8th team foul. Does A2 shoot a one-and-one? The official said no, because it was a player control foul. Hypothetically reversing the foul - If A2's screen is not legal and he commits the foul, Does B1 shoot a one-and-one if it is A's 8th team foul?

A has the ball on the baseline for a throw-in. As the thrower starts the throw-in, he realizes the defense will intercept the pass, so he holds onto the ball. Him momentum carries him forward and he steps on (not over) the line. Is this a violation? The official said yes.

Thanks!
To answer your first question. A2 should have shot the 1 and 1.
Second question: No violation
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 05, 2007, 09:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue37
Two questions from a fan:

1) A1 has the ball and is guarded man-to-man by B1. A2 sets a legal screen and B1 fouls A2 as he attempts to get through the screen. It is B's 8th team foul. Does A2 shoot a one-and-one? The official said no, because it was a player control foul. Hypothetically reversing the foul - If A2's screen is not legal and he commits the foul, Does B1 shoot a one-and-one if it is A's 8th team foul?

A has the ball on the baseline for a throw-in. As the thrower starts the throw-in, he realizes the defense will intercept the pass, so he holds onto the ball. Him momentum carries him forward and he steps on (not over) the line. Is this a violation? The official said yes.
1) You can't call a player control foul on the defense. A2 should shoot 1/1. If A2 commits the foul, it's a team control foul by team A and it's treated basically the same as a player control foul. No free throws and a team B spot throw-in.

2) All side and end lines are out of bounds. It is not a violation to step on a line. It is a violation to step over a line.
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Old Fri Jan 05, 2007, 09:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
1) You can't call a player control foul on the defense. A2 should shoot 1/1. If A2 commits the foul, it's a team control foul by team A and it's treated basically the same as a player control foul. No free throws and a team B spot throw-in.

2) All side and end lines are out of bounds. It is not a violation to step on a line. It is a violation to step over a line.
Good explanation. This is the correct response.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 05, 2007, 09:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue37
Two questions from a fan:

A1 has the ball and is guarded man-to-man by B1. A2 sets a legal screen and B1 fouls A2 as he attempts to get through the screen. It is B's 8th team foul. Does A2 shoot a one-and-one? The official said no, because it was a player control foul. Hypothetically reversing the foul - If A2's screen is not legal and he commits the foul, Does B1 shoot a one-and-one if it is A's 8th team foul?

A has the ball on the baseline for a throw-in. As the thrower starts the throw-in, he realizes the defense will intercept the pass, so he holds onto the ball. Him momentum carries him forward and he steps on (not over) the line. Is this a violation? The official said yes.

Thanks!
I agree with the other answers posted, but let me add:

1) If the play was during a throw-in (and was in HS play), and the foul was on A2 it would NOT be a team control foul. (In NCAA it would be a team control foul during both a throw-in and "normal" play.)

2) If any part of the inbounder touches any part of the court inbounds, the inbounder has violated -- the player could be "on the line" and "over the line" (in some fans' terminology) at the same time.
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Old Fri Jan 05, 2007, 09:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
1) You can't call a player control foul on the defense. A2 should shoot 1/1. If A2 commits the foul, it's a team control foul by team A and it's treated basically the same as a player control foul. No free throws and a team B spot throw-in.

2) All side and end lines are out of bounds. It is not a violation to step on a line. It is a violation to step over a line.
I will provide just a little more description to the above: One has stepped over the line if any part of the foot (or any other parts of the body) is inbounds.
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Old Fri Jan 05, 2007, 09:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue37
Two questions from a fan:

Thanks!
Isn't 116 a high post count for a fan?
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Old Fri Jan 05, 2007, 09:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue37
Two questions from a fan:

A1 has the ball and is guarded man-to-man by B1. A2 sets a legal screen and B1 fouls A2 as he attempts to get through the screen. It is B's 8th team foul. Does A2 shoot a one-and-one? The official said no, because it was a player control foul. Hypothetically reversing the foul - If A2's screen is not legal and he commits the foul, Does B1 shoot a one-and-one if it is A's 8th team foul?

A has the ball on the baseline for a throw-in. As the thrower starts the throw-in, he realizes the defense will intercept the pass, so he holds onto the ball. Him momentum carries him forward and he steps on (not over) the line. Is this a violation? The official said yes.

Thanks!
Player Control Foul: A common foul committed by a player while in control of the ball.

Team Control Foul: A foul committed by a player whose team has control.

A2 should have shot free throw/s. There was no Player Control Foul. For crying out loud, the contact didn't even involve the player in control.

In the case where A2 commits an illegal screen, that is a clear case of a Team Control Foul, with no free throws awarded.

No violation for the thrower to touch the line, in NFHS rules. They are not yet touching the inbounds area.

If it was the same official missing both of these, I wonder what else happened that game. I understand differences in judgement, but not poor rules knowledge.

Last edited by Hartsy; Fri Jan 05, 2007 at 11:27am. Reason: correct error
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Old Fri Jan 05, 2007, 09:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun
Isn't 116 a high post count for a fan?
Those posts are split pretty evenly between the Baseball and Football forums. This is his only basketball post as far as I could see. So maybe he refs other sports, but is merely curious about basketball.
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Old Fri Jan 05, 2007, 10:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef
Hartsy, I think you need to edit something here.
Hmmm. What am I missing?

Foul was called for B1 contacting A2, not A1. So it's not a Player Control Foul, nor does it involve A1, the player in control of the ball. Should I add it is also not a Team Control Foul?

Or were you looking for me to complete the definition of Player Control Foul to include an airborne shooter? I guess I left that out since it didn't apply to the sitch.

Last edited by Hartsy; Fri Jan 05, 2007 at 10:13am.
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Old Fri Jan 05, 2007, 10:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartsy
Hmmm. What am I missing?

Foul was called for B1 contacting A2, not A1. So it's not a Player Control Foul, nor does it involve A1, the player in control of the ball. Should I add it is also not a Team Control Foul?

Or were you looking for me to complete the definition of Player Control Foul to include an airborne shooter? I guess I left that out since it didn't apply to the sitch.
In your first post you said that B1 should be shooting the free throws...
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Old Fri Jan 05, 2007, 10:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAREF
In your first post you said that B1 should be shooting the free throws...
AARGH!!! B1 fouls and shoots. That would make for some interesting moments.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 05, 2007, 10:49am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartsy
AARGH!!! B1 fouls and shoots. That would make for some interesting moments.
All is forgiven, no apologies needed.

But as a favor to the forum, could you go back and edit your answer so any novices that don't know any better don't get confused.
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Old Fri Jan 05, 2007, 11:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef
All is forgiven, no apologies needed.

But as a favor to the forum, could you go back and edit your answer so any novices that don't know any better don't get confused.
Thanks, BNR. OP is edited. Now all I need to do is get the next post right.
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